The Fresh Loaf

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Any suggestions on pullman loaf collapsing during cooling?

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sinjin's picture
sinjin

Any suggestions on pullman loaf collapsing during cooling?

I am having a problem with my pullman loaf and looking for suggestions on what to adjust in my current recipe.  The type of bread I am trying to replicate is the super soft Japanese style milk bread (shokupan) that has a tight crumb, thin soft crust, and pillowy texture.  The orignal recipe I am using for reference is here: http://schneiderchen.de/237Hokkaido-Milky-Loaf.html

So far my loaves have been kind of heavy and not the pillowy texture I am seeking with a gummy ring near the crust (maybe not fully baked?).  Recently after reducing liquids 1tbsp to make it easier to handle (dough was pretty sticky with original recipe) the sides have been collapsing more than usual during cooling on my last attempt.

The adjusted recipe I am using to fit my KAF 9" pullman pan in grams is as follows:

Bread Flour  373

Cake Flour 41

Dry Active Yeast  6

Milk Powder  21

Sugar  55

Salt  6

Egg  33

Milk  147

Whipping Cream  104

Est Dough Weight  786

1) Blend egg, milk, cream, sugar, salt and place into bottom of bread maker (Zoji BBPAC20).       

2) Blend flours with milk powder and place in a mound on top of wet ingredients in bread maker.            

3) Make a well in flour and place in yeast and start bread machine dough cycle (23min rest / 20min knead / 45min rise1 / 40min rise2).     

4) Remove dough, roll out,  tri-fold, roll out 7" wide, roll up and put in greased pullman 9" pan to let rise 60 minutes.            

5) Warm up oven to 375 degrees.  Put in loaf and turn temp down to 350 for 20 min.  Rotate pan 180 and bake for another 15 minutes.       

6) Pull from oven and let rest on counter for 5-10 minutes then remove from pan to cool on wire rack.  Internal loaf temp is around 190 degrees.     

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you might have. 

 

 

 

 

plevee's picture
plevee

I have two long pans like this but without the lids. Baking dough from the same batch at the same time in the Mafter, a heavy tin coated pan, always yields a firm sided browned loaf and the flimsier pan produces a loaf bowed on the sides like yours. I think the loaves would be bowed on the top, too, if I used a lid.

So I think the problem is due to the way the metal conducts heat. Another TFL member posted several times about this problem about a year ago. Someone with a younger brain than mine will remember the name.

Patsy

plevee's picture
plevee

My information retrieval circuit isn't completely kaput!

It was OldWoodenSpoon having the same problems with ITJB Vienna bread.

sinjin's picture
sinjin

Thanks plevee!  I remember seeing those posts before but unfortunately don't recall there being a definite resolution?  I will reread it again just to be sure I didn't miss anything.

plevee's picture
plevee

I reread the posts and apparently the problem just went away. Just to reiterate; my heavy tin lined pan never does this and the lighter pan always does. And that is using the same dough baked in the same oven for the same time.

I've tried tipping the loaf out of the thin pan on to the baking stone for the last 5-10 minutes of cooking without any improvement. So I'm convinced it is the metal. Incidentally both pans are bright shiny finish. The heavy one is smooth and the light one slightly corrugated.

Good luck, Patsy.

sinjin's picture
sinjin

Thanks Patsy!  I am using the KAT 9" pan de mie pan which seems pretty heavy duty and definitely thicker than my generic open loaf pans.  Since this is the only pan de mie pan I have available at the moment I am hoping we can figure out how to fix the baker (me) rather than the equipment ;)

cerevisiae's picture
cerevisiae

I'm suspicious of the part of the directions that tell you to "rest on counter for 5-10 minutes then remove from pan to cool on wire rack". Whenever I've made Pain de Mie, or really, most any bread baked in a pan, I de-pan it promptly after removing it from the oven so the sides don't steam inside the pans and get all soft.

While it could be something else, it looks to me like classic "steamed in the pan" look. In the photo of the slice, one side is nice and flat and not collapsed. Was that the top? The top looks caved in on the loaf photo, but I'm guessing it became inverted when you dumped the bread out of the pan. Is that assumption correct?

I suppose there's also some possibility overproofing, but that seems less likely, based on the current data.

sinjin's picture
sinjin

Thanks cerevisiae for the reply!  The side that is not collapsed is the bottom.  I also received feedback from KAF that I should de-pan immediately.  This last bake may have been on the longer side of 5-10 min rest which is why it was the worst cave in I have experience so far.  I will definitely try removing that part of the recipe and report back how it results!

sinjin's picture
sinjin

Looks like de-panning the loaf immediately after taking it out of the oven did the trick. Last try resulted in a perfectly square loaf.  Thanks again cerevisiae and all for your suggestions!

plevee's picture
plevee

Perfection!

 

cerevisiae's picture
cerevisiae

That looks beautiful! You win at bread!

Have you confirmed that it is tasty?

sinjin's picture
sinjin

Usually if I get a chance to eat what I bake it means it's not that good...since I see the loaf is half gone since this morning I must be on the right track!

Only complaint I got so far is that the 4x4 size of the bread is much smaller than our local baker.  I finally found someone that carries the larger Japanese style 4.5x4.5 size pans online so hopefully once I figure out the new dough amount I should be good to go...