The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

trying something new

  • Pin It
trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

trying something new

What an interesting and tasty experiment. I usually don't  bulk ferment my dough but I decided to try it due to time and space constraints. I made the dough and did a couple s &f's q 20 min .then rest for 1 1/2 hrs then in the fridge it went. I removed it this AM and shaped cold. I always shape cold when I make Ian's buns and love the way the cold dough feels and handles. I made 3/650g boules. It is incredibly easy to shape and get the "free form" burst when the dough is cold as it doesn't really want to stick terribly well. Into the banneton and rising time of 2 1/2 hrs. Lovely..but then I had to go out again !  So back in the fridge for a couple hours. Home and preheat pots 500 degrees. Into the hot pot...down to 460/15 min covered and 15 uncovered. Lovely shape, great rise and wow...the color of the crust and very blistered and nice crunch. Then there is the crumb...oh...my....tender doesn't even come close. The AYW makes magic of the crumb while leaving the crust very crisp and thin and oh so caramelized. The crumb is quite cool and more sour than usual. I am sure it is the extra time in the fridge, the flour combos, the amount/type of levain etc. Whatever...it is so good and I love the very soft fine texture. It went perfectly with the vegetable curry, Basmati rice and toasted almond/pineapple/coriander chutney/raisins/siracha sauce. 

 photo IMG_6938_zps9175b6a1.jpg  photo IMG_6942_zps6e0beddd.jpg  photo IMG_6943_zps4009a29a.jpg  photo IMG_6944_zpsbeb2caf5.jpg I have been feeding my starter durum and AYW, nothing else. Love the way it is responding. 544g AP King Arthur 100g Sprouted spelt 100g Semolina 163g whole wheat 510g whey from my cheese making 14g EVOO 14g honey 22g salt 453g kamut AYW levain 100% hydration mix auto lyse add oil/honey/salt. speed 1 for 1 minute and speed 2 for 3 minutes. s & f as needed..this dough was so responsive out of the mixer that it could have done without any additional s&f so these were token gentle shapings. Rest at room temp for 2 - 2 1/2 hrs. Into fridge overnight. Shape cold...rise 2 or so hours..watch the dough. Bake as noted above. Enjoy ! c

Comments

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

feeding your SD starter Durum and apple yeast water?  I've never heard if that before.  That is the most interesting thing I've heard this year on the TFL!  ( s0metimes make a combo SD and YW levain.  You are stretching the boundaries Caroline!  Well Done!  That bread is really nice and we love any kind of curry around here for sure.

Happy Baking!

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

What do you usually feed your starter  that you keep as your stock ..what liquid ?  when you are building your levain  to bake do you remove and create a special levain for each bread  ? I guess you do from reading your formulas. 

 I got the idea when I first made the AYW. To test it one is supposed to mix it with flour and see how it rises...when it triples then the AYW is ready. After that I noted that you and a few things I read indicated that one could sub the AYW for part or all of the water in a formula. I did that too. I guess the natural step after all that was to feed my starter in preparation for using it as a levain and use AYW as the water . I have also used whey to feed my starter  and to build the levain. I like how the  starter and the levain smells after one does two feedings and it is ready  to store or to mix. You won't believe how quickly it rises and how fragrant it is and its keeping power if you don't get a chance to use it right away. As to the Durum flour...I got 25# from the source Ian had suggested..they grind fresh when you order. I have a LOT of durum :)  It is quite coarse and this really softens the grain. My "starter" is only one entity and I convert it by feeding it once or twice whatever the spirit tells me to feed it. So I have no "pure" starter from which I remove and create a levain. I am sure I am breaking some rule of not keeping a pure white or rye or whatever starter .  So...I guess I am really innovative ??? :)  Thanks dab...

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I thought yo were were feeding YW to your sourdough starter as part of its maintenance.   My stock YW is just the water with some apples floating around in it and I treat it just like my SD starter when it comes to building a levain.  I take 75 g of it and mix it with 75 g of YW to make a 150 g levain - I usually don't do stages with it.

Sometimes I will make a 3 stage combo levain where I will  take 10 g of SD starter and mix it with 10 g of flour and 10 g of YW for the first stage and then doubling the feedings for the 2nd and 3rd stage 4 hours apart ending up with 150 g  of combo levain but I'm not sure what this is.  Most io the time if I am going to use both SD and YW in a bread I build separate levains each.

So are you keeping a YW stock starter that has flour in it like a SD starter does and you feed it flour and YW for the water to maintain it?? 

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I am feeding AYW to my SD starter as its maintenance...and whatever else I feel like feeding it !  It is very impure :) I also do as you do and make a levain with AYW and different kinds of flour and I sometimes do stages and sometimes not. I also do the combo that you refer to and do stages.  I don't do separate levains as a rule but lately I have made a whole wheat and a rye and fed them differently and kept them separate till autolyse time. 
 The main thing about  my starter is that it is whatever it is at anytime. I have no feeding regimen and it is my one and only starter so there is no way to describe it except as " seed starter". Thanks for clarifying dab. c

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

gone away from your SD starter?  When ever I mix SD and YW in a bread either as separate levains or a single combo one, the sour is dramatically reduced in the bread but the keeping quality is lalso ess than a straight SD bread too. 

What an interesting thing to do. .....

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

Sour has definitely not gone away from the starter...it is quite sour. As to keeping quality I find the YW breads are tender and stay way better much much longer than a regular SD. I have never found a SD that is good longer than 48 hrs...it makes fine toast and grilled bread/cheese sandwich but as far as just eating it ...nah..always dry. Most folks on TFL talk about the toast they make with their SD..the reason is that it is dry.  The current SD with YW that I posted is probably the most sour bread I have ever made but it is mellowing out nicely and still very soft/tender crumb. Chemistry at work !!   

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Loaves sound heavenly.  Yeah for the refrigerator.  Mine saves me on a regular basis and will more frequently as summer approaches.

i feed my leavens as you do although i alternate by using my apricot yw one day and my apple yw the next.  It keeps my whole grain leavens sweeter and, as you said, has lots of holding power if I don't get to it on my regular time line.  

Take Care,

Janet

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I look forward to tasting today and see how the sour has changed. The freshness of the loaf with the YW is always  welcome. I think the YW not only aides in the freshness of the levain/starter but the baked bread itself. I haven't tried an apricot YW. There isn't any availability here for apricots and dried as well are scarce. Glad you have them !  c

golgi70's picture
golgi70

Very Nice 

It's fun to play with different technique.  After a while it becomes the simplest form of learning.  I'm also in love with Kamut flour.  It has such a great flavor but man its trick to work with on its own.  I sure wish i could get some durum around here.  It's time for me to buy my own mill me thinks

Nice Bake

Josh

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

Even nicer 24 hrs later. Very mellowed out flavor and crumb still so tender and the crust lovely chewy. Nothing to complain about.  I have enough kamut till the "cows come home" !   Hope you get a mill and get some too. c

isand66's picture
isand66

 Wonderful looking loaves Caroline.  I must try your technique with the AYW feeding.  I am glad you tried the bulk fermenting in the refrig as that's what I do 99.9% of the time and I love it.

I'm about to try my second attempt at potato SD pretzel rolls.  Hopefully these will come out better than the first attempt.

Regards,
Ian