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issues with new bagel

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rudy26's picture
rudy26

issues with new bagel

HI, I'm new here, my name is rudy.  I make artisan bagels in a small city on the east coast.

I've been slowly introducing new varieties in my mix lately, and have had small successes,things to build on going forward.

However,I have had my butt kicked by my newest trial.  I am attempting an oatmeal maple blueberry bagel, and I can not nail this down.  It's certainly frustrating,and I hope someone can point me in the right direction.

To cut to the chase, I have the form, I've failed at the function.  As a bagel, it's pretty.  The crumb, density and crust are all dead on.  the help I need is in the taste.

My latest versions' taste is bland.  I am using oat flour, plain flour, dried blueberries ,maple extract and sugar.

The oat flour is coarse grind.

My problem lies mostly in the maple and blueberry taste.

 I have used real maple syrup, and the taste just isn't there. Eventually it gets there as you chew,but it's not enough.  I imagine if I keep adding maple syrup it will be, but eventually it will change texture, and cost will be prohibitive.

Maple extract adds maple aroma, but the taste isn't there.  The sugar doesn't furnish the needed bottom, as it does with cinnamon raisin. I don't like using the extract, but I thought it might help.

The same with blueberries.  I use the same weight as raisins in cinnamon raisin bagels.  Frozen blueberries turn my dough to mush, the color to blue

As is ever the case, cost is key.  Another concern is trying to keep it simple, and chem free as possible, although not organic.

If you are interested in helping in this puzzle, I'd sure like the help in figuring this out.  Any detail you want, I will gladly furnish.

Thanks in advance

 

andychrist's picture
andychrist

I suspect it is impossible to get the strong taste you are after in a bagel.  The proportion of flour to blueberries and sweetener is necessarily too high for their flavor to come through.  (I bake both fruit pastries and bagels all the time; blueberry volcanoes are my specialty. Always add a few drops of almond and vanilla extracts to intensify the flavor. Lemon zest, juice, and/or extract helps as well.) 

That said, as long as you have baking facilities, why not just churn out some nice little blueberry/maple pastries? Emphasis here being on "little." You could use the same amount of the more expensive ingredients as you would in a bagel, but a lot less flour. Plus, you could charge as much as necessary, above and beyond that of your bagels — customers expect to pay more for cakes than for breads. Blueberry Maple doughnuts or tarts might be a worthwhile and fun addition to your shop. (Going for the obvious round/hole association.)

Wish you all the best in your endeavors.

rudy26's picture
rudy26

That would seem to make sense, however cinnamon raisin bagels have a strong flavor.  I suppose cinnamon is a stronger spice.

isand66's picture
isand66

What percentages of oat flour to white flour are you using?  If you post your recipe we may be able to help.  I have not found oat flour to add that strong of a flavor to the dough at all so that could be part of the problem.  Maybe some brown sugar in combination with the maple syrup.  As you noticed maple syrup does not really add that much flavor.

rudy26's picture
rudy26

added to a white flour batter;

4.0 ounces oat flour

7.0  ounces plain

1/8 tsp maple extract

2.5 tbsp sugar

0.9 ounces dried blues

I've varied the percentages many times, even added wheat flour in the pctge. Even small amounts of wheat hide the flavor, what little there is.

 

nickr's picture
nickr

Hi Rudy,

I think maple may be too subtle given the volume of flour and water. However, you can add more without compromising your crumb (at least to a degree) if you simply roll in "maple chips/crystals/ribbon" during the final shaping. If you do this, there is no need to add it to the dough which would mean you would have one less dough to make.

This may have the added effect of increasing the visual appeal of the bagel. Good luck!

- Nick

rudy26's picture
rudy26

wow, I didn't know they existed. Another road to go down.  Thanks for the tip!

 

Rudy

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

You probably should not be using Grade A maple, and instead be using Grade B, which has more flavor. 

isand66's picture
isand66

I will try making a version next week and let you know how they come out.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

the hot just baked bagel into blueberry juice?  The blueberry would hit the tongue first and ... taste more blueberry.  Add maple butter when cold.  

Have you tried adding lemon or orange zest to the dough or dried berries to bring out more berry flavour? light soaking in lemon aid?

rudy26's picture
rudy26

As priorities, I'd like first maple, then blueberry, then oatmeal.  I am already using dried blueberries, however I am thinking of blending some thawed wild blueberries into a slurry as an additive.  My feeling is that the color change might be unappealing.

I'm thinking in terms of labor intensity as well, so as much pre bake, pre proof as possible would be nice.  Dipping is not an option post bake.  I like the lemon zest, though.

today I used molasses in conjunction with maple extract. I liked it, although Initial reaction will be forthcoming. 

 

andychrist's picture
andychrist

Perhaps you could blend maple into an egg wash? Have done that with honey on my SD bagels. Also, there is such a thing as natural blueberry extract, forget though whether the vendor sells it in bulk the way they do most of their other favors, will have to check. Of course, adding any extract is going to demand extra sugar in the dough, as will lemon zest (yum!)

jaywillie's picture
jaywillie

Have you tried to substitute maple sugar for your sugar? It's very expensive, but it really concentrates the flavor.

Also wondering if maple cream (also called maple spread and maple butter) could be worked into the formula. You can make this yourself, but it takes a fair amount of syrup.

OTOH, my personal opinion is you're seeking too much, flavor-wise. Rather than three flavors, why just go for two -- maple-oatmeal, blueberry-maple (though I admit this combination has no appeal to me, and I love both those flavors), blueberry-oatmeal. Might be easier to get to your taste profile that way.

jaywillie

 

David Esq.'s picture
David Esq.

And there you have if. :)

baybakin's picture
baybakin

At the bagel shop I worked for, we used dried blueberries that were chopped and added to the dough at .3oz per bagel (bagels were weighed at between 4.3 and 4.6 oz).  for the oat flavor, I would actually suggest topping the bagel with rolled oats, so that the oats toast in the oven (un-toasted oats taste pretty bland to me). Perhaps make a mix of maple sugar (i know the stuff is expensive) and oats to top the bagels, as the aroma of the toasted oats and sugar would be closer to the nose when you bite into it.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Do you have an ample supply of fresh common sage?  It often has a mixed berry flavour in cool moist weather.  

Test combinations like maple and nutmeg.

If looking for blueberry pie flavour, nothing will come close.  

Oats are bland, I tend to up the salt or toasting some of the flour or the rolled oats.