The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Another take on Josh and Franco's Pane Maggiore

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trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

Another take on Josh and Franco's Pane Maggiore

What a lovely bread!  As has already been said this has a tender  cool crumb and a pronounced wheat flavor and pleasant faint  sour. I didn't get quite the large holes as in Franco's bake but I altered the formulas a bit. I doubled the amounts that Franco posted. So I had about 2000 g of dough. I shaped this into 3 boules. Thus more handling.  I used the 2 starters and the only thing I altered was the whey I fed the starters. I have a lot of it as I make a lot of soft curd cheese. I put all the dough flour in all but 10% of the water and let it autolyse overnight. I have done this with all my bakes lately and really love the way the gluten develops the next day. I also used sprouted rye flour for all of the dark rye called for . I baked it in preheated 500 degree iron pots. Straight from the fridge. I wasn't sure about rise times so I let the dough rise for 1 hr in the banneton before I retarded it. No counter time prior to bake. 5 minutes in covered pot at 500, 15 min at 460 and then uncover pots and 15 min at 460. Internal temp 212. 

I got a lovely caramelized crust and small ears :) I will definitely make this again. Look forward to seeing how the flavor profile changes over the next days. just out of the fridge:  photo IMG_6868_zps4a24ea30.jpg  photo IMG_6869_zpsab74a224.jpg  photo IMG_6871_zps2c0393a2.jpg  photo IMG_6872_zpsca450f3b.jpg  photo IMG_6873_zpsd234039e.jpg

Comments

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I'm a bit surprised at the 30 minute baking time for a 667 g loaf, but it was clearly well-baked. Did you want a lighter crust, or would you finish the bake at a higher temperature next time? In any case, it looks delicious.

I have my starter refreshing and will probably bake mine Sunday, if I do an overnight retardation.

David

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I just reread my post...I will correct to a total of 35 min. That is plenty for an approx. 1 1/2 # loaf in my experience. I always bake to 212 internal. I don't care for anything too  bold in color as it tastes burned to us...in the photo it appears  lighter than IRL.  5 min at 500 covered /15 min 460 covered /15 min open pan. I look forward to seeing your loaves...as always you have a real gift. 

Here is another bake but shows the color I almost always achieve with the posted bake times/temps. Thank you for posting ! c  photo IMG_6568_zps857220ee.jpg

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Your baking times and temperatures produce the kind of crust you like. Therefore, they are perfect. I do prefer a bolder bake, not to the point of char or a burned taste, but on the darker side. I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you haven't already noticed. 

I have an evening out and a busy morning tomorrow, so I'm pretty sure I'll be mixing the dough tomorrow afternoon, getting it to the point of shaping by evening and retarding the loaf to bake Sunday.

After yesterday's research, I think I have at least four different formulas and procedures. I'm rather inclined to use Josh's, except I doubt I'll use fresh-milled flours. Yeah. I know it won't be as good as it could be. But, if it's at least as good as I expect, I anticipate going through several tweaked bakes of this bread. Ooooo ... Fun!

David

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

Yep...but you know I don't have any of the patience that many of you have for working with a bake and its outcomes. I use the same times/temps/pans for everything LOL !  Never a variation...so when I get a bolder bake I take it as it comes...the bread and flour are having their way...which they are allowed to do in my kitchen and oven...as long as it is within the parameters stated above !  I love your bold bakes...have no doubt about it...but have never achieved them within my self imposed "rules" above. Not sure how you get the color you get at the times/temps I have noted you use in your formulas,I have read them for years, and still only bake to 210-212. When you get time we will have to talk about this...I am always will to learn and expand my experience.

I definitely plan to use this as a base for more exploration as well as the lovely loaf that Ian posted the other day with the kamut/durum. I made that too and we just finished one loaf of that. Lots to bake and only 2 mouths . Thank you as  always for your thoughtful posts. c

Franko's picture
Franko

It looks super trailrunner!

Might have to try the overnight autolyse myself because I prefer the crumb on your loaf to the one I had on mine. Big holes are fine and all, but I'm happier with an even and open crumb such as yours. Dabrownman and I both noted our loaves were fairly sour and your impression of the flavour was a faint sour. Was this the sour level you expected or was it less than what you would normally have in other similar type loaves? Whatever the case it sounds like your enjoying the flavour and that's what counts most of all. Thanks for sharing your fine results, nice work!

Franko

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I read so many posts on TFL and almost everyone is about trying to achieve an open crumb. I never  look for that except in a few types of bread...baguettes and SJSD to name the usual suspects ! I love this crumb and it is what I end up with almost exclusively as I said. 

These were not particularly sour at all..just a hint. I wonder if it has to do with the whey ? I find that my starters are always "sweeter" if you will due to the whey I generally feed them with. Something to think about . It is the sour level I get all the time no that you mention it !  And it is the one we like most also. I did a bake a while back and had no whey and didn't use AYW either and it was quite sour...I think the mystery is solved :)  Do try the overnight autolyse. You simply won't believe the headstart you get on gluten development. The dough has consistently felt like silk after 5 min in the KA.  Look forward to your next post as well. I learn so much here. Thank you ! c

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

this a great recipe?  It's one of our new favorites. My 50% whole grain version was more sour than the 40% version but both were plenty sour.  I think you are the only one I have read about who bakes to 212F  Where did you learn that?  Just curious.  I bake to 205 F sometimes a little more land earned that from David Snyder.

I don't get big holes like Josh or David either because they are better bakers:-)  Your usual example boule looks like it was a baked seam side up on a DO and it bloomed like Skibum's boules do when he bakes them that way.  Well done and

Happy Baking

golgi70's picture
golgi70

Nice Bake TR.  Some interesting mods you made.  I am afraid to autolyse whole grains for so long myself.  Love the sprouted rye.  I think I may sprout some rye berries and fold them in to this loaf sometime in the near future.  So happy everyone is giving this formula a whirl.  i think it'd be a keeper in most peoples books.  

Happy Baking 

Josh

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I didn't autolyse whole grains...only the flour...it is Sprouted Rye Flour from these folks http://www.organicsproutedflour.net/.  So nothing too daring on my part :)  The amount of whey is pretty small..total about 100g in the 2 starters...it keeps the starters sweeter , as I mentioned.  Will keep trying new things ...I need to read back on all your iterations also. Thanks for looking ! c

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Nice take on the bread, Caroline! Crust, and crumb. Well done. 

About the overnight autolyse, whey , and sprouted flours... Sounds novel and interesting!

 

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I'm up cause I don't sleep well ~! Thank you Khalid . The overnight autolyse  is really just a soaker of all flour for the bread...and no whey in it...only filtered water. Whey was  only in the 2 levains. I have seen the 24 hr overnight soak of flour on several bakes on TFL and just decided to try it a while back. I was so impressed with the way the flour behaved the next day that I have done it on every bread I make. I just measure out the flour for the dough the day before and add the weighed out water for the formula to it...stir well and cover tightly. It is all at room temp...which at present in my house is 68 F. When summer comes will not likely leave out as long as I am in the South and we don't use a lot of air conditioning...usually keep house at 80 F...will adapt then and see. Always something new to learn and try on TFL !   Look forward to more of your wonderful adventures at the market ! c

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

recently.  It could be your lighter bakes are because it is actually a lower temperature that what is says it is.  The only reason I ask is that my bakes were lighter than David's until I checked mine and found it to be 25 F lower that it was supposed to be.  This solved tho puzzle as long as Lucy remmebers to set the tperature 25 F higher :-)

isand66's picture
isand66

Great looking bake Caroline!  I have this bread on my list to try soon and looks like yours turned out great.

Regards,
Ian

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

coming from you and the others that is a great compliment:) Ya'll bake lovely breads. The flavor is even better today and what a tender crumb. I feel like in my case at least the tender crumb is due to the long long autolyse and perhaps the sprouted rye flour. I have nothing else I can attribute it to. I will take it !  This bread has so much flavor. My husband made grilled ham and aged cheddar sandwiches on it at noon. We had them on the back patio in the SUN!!  What a treat..I had to look twice I thought it was fine pastry...not "just" bread.

Isn't it amazing...flour/salt/water/yeast....a miracle. Thank you for posting..you and all the other talented bakers. c