The Fresh Loaf

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Not getting the rise or oven spring

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hamletcat's picture
hamletcat

Not getting the rise or oven spring

I've been trying to bake no knead bread.  And it comes out lovely.  Good crumb, taste and crust BUT I am not getting much of a rise.  After 24 hours it pretty much is only about 1.5 x the size of the original dough and there is no oven spring at all.  Lots of holes, it just seems to be too dense.  The recipe I am using says that the original dough should expand 2 - 3x the original size and I am just not getting that.  Also the oven spring isn't there either.  I am preheating my casserole dish but there is no spring.  The bread is the same size as the dough was going in.  

tea berries's picture
tea berries

… is not something I'm yet knowledgable enough to give, but some standard things I've learned from just a few weeks on this site - dough hydration, activity of yeast and no over fermenting … can't no-knead dough rise and then collapse too? 24 hours seems like a long time unless that's the nature of the recipe and the dough… like I said, I'm not really qualified… but steam is supposed to give the oven spring which comes from dough moisture and the doughs ability to trap the gasses because of its good gluten form. (gluten lets the dough stretch out) … 

Not sure what's happening, but hubby makes no-knead dough all the time and his is always dense.. but delicious!

ChrisC's picture
ChrisC

I too am new to this and have had some luck with a couple things. 

1) Pre-ferment step with your starter..add 2/3 cup of flour + water 12 to your starter 12 hours before use.  It gets your starter really active (if it's not already)

2) stretching and folding your sourdough rather than neading creates surface tension and helps trap the gass of the bread for the rise (lots of stuff avialable on youtube about this one)

3) Using more water in your dough generally seems to help with the rise

4) Shorten up your bulk fermentation time...I went from an 8 hour bulk ferment to a four hour with pretty good success

Bob S.'s picture
Bob S.

It sounds like there is not enough microbial activity to inflate your dough. Try increasing your yeast (or levain). Once you achieve 2 - 3x expansion, the oven spring problem may also be resolved.

WoodenSpoon's picture
WoodenSpoon

Whats your recipe/technique for developing gluten?

hamletcat's picture
hamletcat

Basically what I am doing is taking 3c white bread flour, 1 1/2 tsp salt, 1 1/2 cups of water and 1/4 tsp yeast.  Mixing until there is no dry flour left and then letting it ferment for 8 to 24hrs.  The dough rises but not 2 or 3x the size, and the oven spring is next to nothing.  

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Maybe your using instant yeast and it is not in great shape or you need to put half again as much into the mix ...say 3/8th tsp and see if that works better.  If using ADY you would want to proof it first in some warm water.   If the temp in your kitchen is less than 75 F you might want to up the dough temp to that amount. 

WoodenSpoon's picture
WoodenSpoon

are ya doing any stretch and folds/slap and folds after mixing until all the flour is hydrated? are you shaping and proofing after that 8-24 hour bulk fermentation or are you just popping it in the oven unshaped and straight off the bulk ferment?

hamletcat's picture
hamletcat

Thanks to you both....

@woodenspoon, no I am not doing any folding just basically taking the fermented dough and putting it straight into the dutch oven and baking it.

WoodenSpoon's picture
WoodenSpoon

I am very suspicious that that is your problem. I think you might need a touch more gluten development and shaping would result in some surface tension which would aid in oven spring.

Heath's picture
Heath

I thought the whole point of no-knead bread was that the long fermentation develops the gluten without any need for kneading of any kind (that was a bit of a tongue-twister!).  I've never baked a similar loaf myself so don't know what the baked loaf should look like or how much oven spring it should have.

I'm wondering if your kitchen was cold so that the dough was rising more slowly than the recipe allowed.  If that was the case, there was nothing wrong with the dough and it just needed being left longer until it doubled.  Dough will rise even in the fridge, but the cold does slow things down.

If that wasn't the reason, maybe your yeast wasn't strong enough?  Have you used it recently for another bake?  Did that turn out right?  Is the yeast out-of-date?

WoodenSpoon's picture
WoodenSpoon

no knead bread does imply no kneading, though I think a little manual help may be just what the doctor order in this case. upon a quick google search of no knead processes I found this http://www.sullivanstreetbakery.com/recipes the formula mirrors the one in question almost perfectly and they call for a few folds and shaping/proofing which I think will make all the difference, that and dialing in the fermentation time a little, because 8-24 hours seems like a pretty wild range.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

for shaping only, one fold and then pull across the counter to stretch the skin and placing in a basket for final proofing  will likely fix the problem.  Just pulling across the counter to stretch the skin tight would also be OK without the 1 fold.

hamletcat's picture
hamletcat

Ok, all this information is really helping because the original recipe (video) I saw showed none of this.  Just mix the dough, let it ferment, dump it into the dutch oven which is preheated, and then back 25min with the cover and 10 minutes without.