The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Banneton Sticking Problems

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Jamila's picture
Jamila

Banneton Sticking Problems

Hello,

I have tried now twice to use this banneton to shape and rise my dough in. It is one without cloth, just wood.

 

I rose the dough once then put it into the banneton.

 

I used heavy flour but still both times the dough stuck.

 

Advise really needed!

 

Thanks in advanced

Jamila

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Jamila - great question.  Are you using high hydration doughs?  I see you use heavy flour.  I use uber-heavy flour.. like you cannot see wicker at all, and all crevices are well filled.  I use even more on the banneton "bottom" (bread top) since the weight of the dough puts more pressure on the surface and gets more of the flour wet.  I suppose once my banneton are well "seasoned" I won't need to use as much, but I am not there yet. Also, be sure you are not over-proofing. 

 I turn out my bannetons onto a peel with semolina flour pretty gently and let them sit upside down for a bit and let the inverted weight of the dough help gently pull the mass onto the peel.  Helps prevent deflating.  I even put a little semonlina flour on the dough before I flip it over since a lot of it sticks the surface and saves the flour on the peel for sliding.  I never have a problem with it sticking on the peel when I do it this way.

 hope this helps.

SD Baker

Jamila's picture
Jamila

Yes, very high hydration doughs.

 

How do you know if you are overproofing? I just follow the recipe, so sometimes it is just an hour or two and sometimes more.

 

I will try to put more flour, like you said, so much that you couldn't see the nook and cranies. I will also try to flip and sit to see if that helps, I have never done that.

 

Thanks for the tips!

 

Jamila 

 

 

Uberkermit's picture
Uberkermit

I had the good fortune of watching one of the production bakers at KAF dump loaf after loaf of 68% hydration sourdough from unlined, heavily floured bannetons onto a conveyor loader. Of the three dozen or so loaves she loaded, maybe five or ten stuck in parts to the banneton, but they came out with gentle prying and she did a quick re-shape to fix these.  If one was sticking, she occaisionally let it sit upside down on the loader for a minute while she moved on to the next one. But by and large, the whole thing was pretty smooth. The only thing she used to dust the bannetons was all purpose flour, so I can tell you it is possible to pull off. Of course, the whole process looks like a piece of cake when performed by someone who makes hundreds of loaves a day!

 

With that said, here are some things to check into:

- Did your recipe use a lot of whole grain flour?

- What was the gluten development of the dough you were proofing? Under-developed dough will be much stickier than dough with good development. If need be, add another stretch-and-fold to your bulk fermentation and see if that helps.

- Also, were you pre-shaping the loaves before loading? I would recommend doing a quick rounding, let it rest 10 minutes and then tighten on the table before placing into the banneton.

- Finally, although you said you used a lot of flour in dusting, would it be possible to use even more flour? :-) I would try this last one only if the above failed.

 

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Excellent point on pre-shaping a boule.  The increased surface tension will help the sides from exerting as much outwards pressure.

Jamila's picture
Jamila

For one recipe just white bread flour. The other was a mixture of semolina and white bread four.

 

 Stretch and fold is new for me, and I have found it a bit hard, but am still trying. I will add more rounds of it to see if that helps.

 

I never pre-shaped the loaves as they were such high hydration I didn't know  or think it would hold it's shape. In fact after inverted them onto the peel they were blobs. (Those were my first attempts at really wet doughs. Of which I wasn't sure that that was normal or not.) The breads did turn out tasty however, with lovely crumb.

 

I can add more flour, :-)

 

Thank you,

Jamila 

 

BROTKUNST's picture
BROTKUNST

I have 'seasoned' and new bannetons. The key is, I think, to flour the clean and dry banneton with (brown) rice flour and semolina flour. You will need only a light 'coating', less then you might expect after having seen your dough stuck to the banneton. Then lightly flour your loaf as well ... on the loaf I use a little white flour (e.g. AP) and then a light coat of brown rice flour. You won't need any 'flour puddles'.

Then just proof your loaf for any amount of time, in the fridge or at elevated temperature and you'llbe fine. I place my peel (superpeel.com) over the banneton and invert the loaf on the peel. Then I lift the baneton  and let the dough release itself from the basket .... the loaf is not really lifted from the peel when I do that. It takes about 3-4 seconds and is a very gentle process.

Since I use the brown rice flour and semolina I haven't had any problems with the dough sticking to the banneton - not once.

By the way .. never wash your bannetons. I just clean them with a brush made of horse hair  (The -new- brush was originally designed for the cleaning of shoes). You'll find that brush in any larger supermarket.

BROTKUNST

Jamila's picture
Jamila

I cannot recall ever seeing rice flour. I regularly use semolina so that won't be a problem. I will also look for a brush. I did however already wash it :-( I hope that doesn't ruin it, I thought it would help get out the dough, it didn't. I sat with a butter knife and scraped along the ridges to pull out the dough then did it again after it dried.

 

Thank you for your help!

 

Jamila 

BROTKUNST's picture
BROTKUNST

In the US you'll find rice flour in your supermarket with other products from Bob's Red Mill. The rice flour has a completely different feel from regular white flour ... almost dusty. I think that may be one of the keys why this flour works so much better on the bannetons.

 

It's not a problem at all that you washed your banneton. Just make sure it will be completely dry before the next use. If you used soap you'd want to make sure that you rinsed it thoroughly before drying.

 

BROTKUNST

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

If your local supermarket doesn't carry it, see if you live near a "Whole Foods" market chain.  Think Trader Joes also carries it.

 SD Baker

KipperCat's picture
KipperCat

As a last resort, would rice ground in a spice grinder be fine enough?  I keep a small coffee grinder for spices, and sometimes clean it by grinding rice.

BROTKUNST's picture
BROTKUNST

... I would not expect the result to be a fine as you can buy it. As it was mentioned before, the rice flour is almost like 'dust'.

BROTKUNST

dwg302's picture
dwg302

white rice flour works very well for flouring the banneton.  its much finer than all purpose flour and works terrific.  bob's red mill brand is the one i use and is carried in most grocery stores.

david

JMonkey's picture
JMonkey

I had enormous problems with sticking until a few folks on the forum gave me some tips. Here's what's worked for me:

  • Dust the banneton and then lightly dust the loaf before putting it in.
  • Once it's in the banneton, flour the sides of the loaf so that, as it rises, it won't stick to the banneton.
  • If you can find it, use rice flour or a 50-50 mix of rice and white or whole wheat flour.
  • Don't dust with brown rice flour. It makes the crust chewy instead of crunchy.

Good luck!