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Shelf life of uncut, 90% 3-step rye.

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Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Shelf life of uncut, 90% 3-step rye.

Hi all -

I realize now this is probably better in its own topic, in case it helps others.  For my in-laws up in the U.P., I baked a 90% rye, using the Detmolder technique, as shown in Peter Hamelman's book. 

My question is - how long can an uncut loaf of this bread last?  A better question, anyone have any thoughts on optimal post-baking ripening for these?  I baked it last night, with the original intent of serving it my mom and dad in law Saturday night; but the whole family gets together Tuesday eve.  I'm baking off a levain boule tonight, as reserve. 

Thanks for any thoughts, guys.  And happy holidays.

 

Paul

adri's picture
adri

My 90% hydration rye can be stored about 3 weeks.
In my opinion it tasted best on the 4th-5th day. It contains a lot of coarsely cut groats so on the first days you cannot even eat it.

90% or more rye is good for bread to be storable.
High hydration is good. What's your hydration?
High amount of fermented flour is good. How much sourdough did you add to the final dough?
A long 2nd step ("Grundsauer") is good. How long was it?

Adrian

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

The answer to your question depends primarily on the moisture content of the bread.  If the loaf feels damp then it needs more curing time while covered with linen.  If the loaf feels dry, wrap it up now.  Place the bread in a closed plastic bag and the moisture content will stabilize throughout the loaf. A 90% rye with proper moisture content can last in the refrigerator for weeks.  If the crumb is damp it will want to mold.   I would not recommend the refrigerator for any other type of bread but breads with a very high rye content store quite well under refrigeration.

Other factors here are whether or not you used steam and whether or not you added yeast.  Generally speaking,  steam helps create a thicker crust and pure sourdough will last longer than yeasted bread

Jeff

adri's picture
adri

You don't go to the trouble of feeding your sourdough in 3 steps at 3 different controlled temperature levels to later add yeast and sourdough to your final dough.

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

It is an option in the Hamelman recipe.  The very recipe followed by the original poster.

Jeff

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Thank you both, very much.  I don't know rye at all well, so I'm very closely following Hamelman, until I better understand rye and its qualities. Here's a pic, if it helps at all:

 

I'm afraid on this make I did use just a touch of yeast - .11 %. I almost felt guilty after that beautiful natural sour had done its labor, but I wanted a nudge in proofing, etc. (that was likely a completely superfluous thing, as my prior loaf was very nice....I have a lot of experience with French style levains and none with rye, to speak of).  The loaf was steamed rigorously, but the moisture was pulled at 6 minutes.  The loaf got 15 minutes at 460 then an additional bake at 410F for 55 minutes.  I might be answering my own question but unlike my last 90%, I wanted this one to dry out a bit more, and by the feel it is affirmatively dry. 

It's wrapped in paper now - if we eat it tomorrow night, it should be fine, yes (I mean, wrapped in paper)?  If I were to save it for Tuesday, would either of you, or perhaps both of you, recommend plastic and the refrigerator?   

Adri, thank you for the terminology - I love languages but know very little German, much to my regret.  This one got a full 24 hours in the second stage, as I obtained a digital thermostat controller and was able to keep the temp low.  (Thank you guys, can't recall right now, a thread where someone recommended the Lux WIN100....love it!).  In terms of the sourdough in the final mix, per Hamelman (a baker's percentage of) 118%.  Hydration of 79%.

Thank you again, for your help.  Given the above does any of this indicate whether Saturday is the better option, or Tuesday will hold - or even better, perhaps improve?

My best,

Paul

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

The loaf will make it to Tuesday just fine if well wrapped in paper.  You could put the whole wrapped loaf into a plastic bag that you do not close.

As for the yeast, have no regrets.  Jeffrey Hamelman is a superlative baker and has good reason for listing yeast as an option.  A hard core purist would not use yeast but there are those moments where it has its place.

Happy Holidays,

Jeff

adri's picture
adri

As to languages: I just put the German word for the 2nd step as I don't have Hamelmans book and didn't know whether he translated it or not. Does the rest of the text sound very foreign? I'm translating on the fly while I write. Sometimes this messes with the grammar.

Such a long second step and high amount of sourdough (1.18 times of what you add as flour for the final dough?) makes it unlikely to catch bread diseases (rope spoilage or simple mould).

The problem here should really be the loss of moisture. A plastic bag messes a bit with the crust: but better to have a crust that isn't crusty (<- no pun; that's what my dictionary says. crispy?) than to have a dry brick.

The sourdough rye breads you can buy at the local discounter or supermarket all come in plastic bags with small holes in it. My tin loafs (no crispy crust anyway) I also store in a plastic bag without any loss of quality.

Our fridge is too small to store breads but a friend stores bread in his. He reports good experience as long as the bread will not get frozen. The maybe one pound he is eating from he stores outside the fridge as cold bread doesn't taste good.

Nice looking bread btw. (especially for not having much experience with rye).

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Adri, thank you, you're a lifesaver.  I suspect if I went with my original plan, we'd be able to keep the cold arctic blasts up north from blowing our doors open, but that's about the only use this loaf would get. :)

I freely admit I may have it wrong, in terms of Hamelman - but what he calls the "basic sour," the acetic acid development phase, he lists as anywhere from 15-24 hours, with a temp. range of 23-27C, ("the longer the ripening time, the cooler the temperature, and vice versa).  I say I am following his book very closely, but not slavishly - I do watch the ferments and judge accordingly.  This one was about as far as I would push a ferment and feel right, to be honest - it had just started to go concave, but just slightly so. 

He's got 7.38 kg of "full sour" to 6.22 kg of rye/white flour (5.22 kg and 1 kg hi-gluten, respectively).  As a result, the bulk ferment is almost non-existent, 10-20 minutes (I went with 15 - as a starting point).  Is this typical, with dark ryes like this? 

We leave for the holidays early tomorrow a.m., and I'm afraid this former chef is not used to baker's hours, so I'm turning in...as I've got a pain au levain retarding, which I intend to bake off at 4:00 a.m.  The reason? 

In case my rye is, er, a brick. Back up for my in-laws.  I am a prudent man.  :)

Given my early start I don't believe I'll have a chance to reply until our return, about 10 days from now, so wanted to say thank you again, and let you know my absence of replies was only because I'll be in the tundra and out of touch. 

Good health and a wonderful new year to you, Adri. 

Paul

adri's picture
adri

Quote:
"basic sour,"

That's a good translation for "Grundsauer" :)

Quote:
As a result, the bulk ferment is almost non-existent, 10-20 minutes (I went with 15 - as a starting point). Is this typical, with dark ryes like this?

Yes, that is typical for Austrian and German rye. We use it for most wheat breads also. And it is not a real fermentation step but time for the flour to absorb water.

And funny, I just wrote about that topic before reading your post:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/278065#comment-278065

Please report how the tasting was :)

Quote:
Good health and a wonderful new year to you, Adri.

To you as well!