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Tartine whole wheat crumb bakes moist

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lgudema's picture
lgudema

Tartine whole wheat crumb bakes moist

I know this has been a topic before, but the answer of "bake longer" isn't working for me.

I'm making a Tartine whole wheat loaf that's about 75% hydration. I start the baking at 500 in a dutch over and turn it down to 450, taking the lid off after 20 minutes. Whether I bake it for 45 minutes or an hour, the crumb is still damp/moist. Otherwise it looks pretty good to me, and it tastes good (mild sourness after proofing overnight in the refrigerator; there's very little sourness if I proof for 2-3 hours in a warm spot and then bake). I can't imagine reducing the hydration much below that, I think the dough would be difficult to handle.

You can see on this recent attempt that the top of the crust is starting to burn after an hour, so I don't want to bake it any longer than that. I haven't taken the temperature of the crumb, I don't find the quick read thermometer very reliable/accurate, but after an hour at 450+, how could it not be at least 200-205?

Any ideas? Thanks!

 

 

abbygirl's picture
abbygirl

It is underproofed if it is taking that long to bake....

 

lgudema's picture
lgudema

Thanks for the suggestion Abbygirl, but I think that's unlikely. I made two loaves (that's what the Tartine recipe produces) and both proofed in the refrigerator for 15+ hours. Then I took them out and warmed them up (more proofing) before baking. The first loaf warmed up/proofed for an hour before baking, and the second loaf for close to 3 hours. Both came out similarly moist, as do almost all my loaves. But otherwise the crust is good, the crumb has nice pockets and taste, etc.

smignogna's picture
smignogna

thats the most likely the fully gelatinized starch. are you letting it cool or are you cutting right away? if you let it cool for at least 4 hours and its still "wet" its most likely just the soft sheen of a fully gelatinized crumb, which is what tartine and most bakers strive for. this is a characteristic of a high hydration dough with an open crumb. from looking at the picture above it doesnt seem overly wet to me.

lgudema's picture
lgudema

Interesting idea. I usually cut the loaves after about 30 minutes, when they're still warm but can be easily handled. Although I haven't seen either Chad Robertson or Michael Pollan (in "Cooked" he describes the Tartine method in detail) mention waiting 4 hours, I see on another thread on TFL that many others advocate that, too

BTW, that particular photo was taken a few hours after the loaf was sliced, so it was starting to go stale and that's why it doesn't look moist. But it does still show the oven spring, crumb, pockets and crust pretty well, that's why I posted it.

Thanks

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

205 F on the inside middle it is done.  Then it takes patience to let it cool completely before cutting it.   The 4 hour mark  suggested above is about right.  It will tasts better if ypiu cut it the next day though.

Happy baking

lgudema's picture
lgudema

I'll give it a try

smignogna's picture
smignogna

yea let it cool fully and let us know how it turns out. some bread, mainly hi rye ones need a full 24 hour curing time so they are not "gummy." although its so tempting to cut into the bread right when it comes out its best to wait.....if i'm baking two, i usually cut one at about an hour or two hours (cause i have no patience) and then save the next one for the second day.

smignogna's picture
smignogna

oh and another reasons for letting it cooling fully is that the caramelized flavor from the crust will equalize with the sour from the crumb. richard miscovich talks about this in his wood fired oven book.

lgudema's picture
lgudema

But unfortunately, because of travels, can't try that for 10 days or so. But will let you know how it turns out

DreadAndDream's picture
DreadAndDream

I found that this problem solved itself when I got a more open crumb. I think the moisture has an easier time escaping the center of the loaf when air pockets and channels are created.

lgudema's picture
lgudema

Thanks for your comment. If you look at the photo, isn't that an open crumb? How did you make yours more open? Thx

lgudema's picture
lgudema

OK, so I'm back from my travels. Thanks for all your comments. Today's loaf was 50% King Arthur white bread flour, 25% KA white whole wheat and 25% Arrowhead stone ground whole wheat. 75% hydration, plus my leaven.

In Tartine #3, just out, Chad has actually recommended baking longer -- 30 minutes in dutch oven covered and then another 20 uncovered. He doesn't specify the length of cooling.

Peter Reinhart says that 200-210 degrees is the gold standard; he aims for 205. His instructions for a white sourdough are only 30 minutes of baking, and 45 minutes cooling.

After 30 minutes in a covered dutch I took the temperature and it was already 205. Nonetheless I took the lid off and put it back in while I double checked what Peter Reinhart said. Yup - 205 and 30 minutes. It was 40 minutes by the time I returned and it was now 210. So I took it out and cooled it for four hours. And the crumb is still moist. It tastes good, has good oven spring (3" high loaf), good crust, nice ears, but moist.

What's with that???