The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Detmolder Light Rye w/ Scald (25% rye)

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golgi70's picture
golgi70

Detmolder Light Rye w/ Scald (25% rye)

Now that I've jumped into the world of heavy rye breads and learned the infamous detmolder three stage build I got curious.  If it makes for the best dark rye's couldn't it make for an excellent light rye as well?  

I'm pretty happy with the results.  Tons of flavor for a light rye here.  Nice sour notes in the crumb (more after a day or two) with a sweet and crunchy crust.  Toasts up amazingly.  This is my white sourdough  

More testing needs to be done.  

First off I'll have to make the same formula with just a rye sour and see if skipping the detmolder detracts from this breads quality (I'm pretty sure it will at least shorten its life span)  I just finished these loaves I made last Sunday on Thursday and they were still moist on the inside and just starting to get truly staled. I leave my bread cut side down on a cutting board and avoid putting it in bags.  I figure I get to experience the loaf in all of its stages of life.  

Next test would be to see if cold bulk or final fermentation would add or detract from the loaf.

And of course there is increasing the amount of Rye.  

Finally I also used the same dough to make little rolls topped with Coarse Salt and Caraway which were also great. 

Sorry no  pictures of the rolls.  

the loaves were 1 kg batards and the rolls were 100g.  

Happy Baking

Josh

Comments

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Sweet! You have such a delicate handling approach, Josh. 

You've pushing boundaries with your light rye detmolder. It looks great, but as you suspected it may stale quickly

golgi70's picture
golgi70

Actually this loaf had great keeping quality but I fear if I removed the three stage and scald it would stale much quicker even if the flavor profile stayed in tact.  I doubt the that would remain the same unless I did a two stage starter, one liquid and one stiff to gather both ends of the flavor profile.  

This is a good loaf though.  Honestly all I really want to do is tinker with the amount of rye.  Increasing up towards the 40% ranger and finding the sweetest spot. 

How goes the pastry world?  

Josh

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Yeah, this makes sense. I haven't any white rye , so i won't be able to replicate this.

As to pastry, we're continuing our cold desserts with Caramel custard, cream brule, etc. We have one more class and we'll reach the end of the curriculum. I have a few missed classes to make up though.

 

golgi70's picture
golgi70

This loaf is made with whole rye. 25% of total flour. I've never used or owned white rye myself. 

I ended up missin a bunch of classes and havin to make them up my go at school too. 

All worth the effort in the end

josh

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

So, what did you scald? Some portion of the rye that wasn't pre-fermented?

David

golgi70's picture
golgi70

Of the 25% rye 60% of it was put in the sour.  The remainder made up the scald and then they were combined as the sponge.  So all of it essentially is prefermented flour.  So of the total flour in the formula 15% went into the Sour (all rye) and 10 % went into the scald (again all rye).  

Honestly one of my favorite loaves to date but I grew up on light Jewish Rye and all this didn't have was the caraway.  Which by the way would be a fine addition.  

Josh

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

white SD.  Has to taste better than most white breads but i'm guessing some added ww, oat, corn, spelt and Kamut that adds up to 30% with the rye (5% each)  might be a better tasting white bread overall but then it wouldn't be a light rye either:-)  A very nice bread and has to be equally well done as a dinner roll with salt & caraway.

happy baking Josh

golgi70's picture
golgi70

Whole grains would make for a "better" loaf but that wasn't the goal DAB.  I just wanted to see what the three stage build would do to a light rye.  Granted the process is somewhat tedious and takes more time but overall it made one of the best Sourdoughs (mostly white that is) I've had to date.  

Josh

isand66's picture
isand66

This looks and sounds like an awesome tasting bread.  Your crumb looks about as good as it gets.  Can you share your exact formula?  I like the idea of using the scald in this style of bread which sounds like it really helped.

Thanks for sharing.
Ian

golgi70's picture
golgi70

I used freshly (1-2 days old) ground Red Winter Wheat and Rye

Sour:  DDT 76-78 F (12-18 hours pending room temps and such)

100 g refreshed and peaked Rye Starter

250 g  Whole Rye

300 g  H20

 

Scald: Made a few hours before mixing the sponge so it cooled down to about 80 F

200 g Whole Rye

350 g Water, boiled

 

Sponge:  This took 4 hours to ripen

Rye Sour

Scald

 

Final Dough:  DDT 76 F

1500  Malted Bread Flour (11.5 % protein)  KA All Purpose is a good sub

925    H20

22      Sea Salt

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Autolyse Flour, H20 and Sponge for 20 minutes

Add Salt and begin mix on low speed for 3 minutes

Develop Dough on medium speed until good development

Bulk Ferment;  2 1/2 hours with 2 stretch and folds @ 50 minutes (I did two folds each time rotating dough 90 degrees)

Divide preshape rest

Shape to floured couche seams up and proof 1 1/2- 2 hours

Bake @ 500 w/ steam for 13 minutes and continue baking for 20-30 minutes rotating as needed.

* I don't bother reducing oven temp as the home oven loses so much heat from the door opening

This dough is slack and reminiscent of Tartine dough yet with the added stick factor from the rye.  

Josh

isand66's picture
isand66

Thanks Josh.  I have bookmarked and printed this one and will give it a try soon.

Ian

annie the chef's picture
annie the chef

I have to tell you that your New York Rye is the most popular bread among my family and friends.

 

This loaf has 40% white rye and tasted like white bread. I used one stage levain and I did 12 hour autolyse before adding the levain and the dough was 75% hydration.

I have to try this formula with scald method.  Thank you so much for posting.

Happy baking!

Annie

golgi70's picture
golgi70

Is that the recipe I posted many moons ago?  Along with challah and NYC Italian bread this is my fondest childhood memory of bread.   And probably my favorite of the three. I liked pulling the crust off and eating seperately from the crumb, which I must admit I liked to squish and eat. Hey I was a kid. At least i liked caraway. My brothers hated it. 

I highly suggest trying this new rye. I was pleased to eat it 5 days in a row. And the rolls with salt and caraway were as pleasing as a good pretzel. 

Happy end of the year

josh

annie the chef's picture
annie the chef

It is a blooomer! My two years old girl loves to munch away all the crust and gave all the crumb back to me so I just left the caraway seeds out this time. :)

Thanks again for sharing your beautiful experience.

Cheers,

Annie

sandydog's picture
sandydog

Josh,

In your original posting of this thread you said that you also used the same dough to make little rolls topped with coarse Salt and caraway which were also great - I would like/intend to try these.

What technique do you use to apply the sea salt to the rolls? I normally apply a fine  spray with water and sprinkle with salt crystals immediately prior to baking - Do you do anything different?.

Happy for you to pm me if you do not wish to dilute this thread, but i'm fairly sure others will be interested in your technique. Alternatively, I am also happy for you to provide me with the link to this information if you have already posted it earlier (And I apologise in advance for not finding it myself)

Thanks in anticipation,

Brian

golgi70's picture
golgi70

You may want to try a simpler rye if you intend just for rolls. 

 

none the less. 

Make a mix of caraway and coarse salt in a wide bowl or plate. Soak a kitchen towel so it's damp. After shaping roll tops on wet towel then into seeds. i placed mine onto floured towels tops (seeded side). Down. Proof. 

bake with steam at 500 for 7 minutes and vented for 20 more 

josh

sandydog's picture
sandydog

Thank you for that clear piece of advice/information Josh.

I agree with you about a simpler rye for rolls and will keep the Detmolder method (A good excuse to use my temperature probe and proofing box now winter is upon us here in the UK) for larger loves with a higher % of rye flour.

Thanks again,

 

Brian