The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

"Artisan" Bread?

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Conjuay's picture
Conjuay

"Artisan" Bread?

My sister posted this today on her FB page, and I was wondering if anyone here has tried this recipe. I have several concerns - such as the technique, as well as placing a cold stone in a 450* oven, and especially adding pepper to a bread dough.

Of course I realize the pepper is an optional ingredient, but it is the first time I ever came across it in a bread formulation. Ever. (and I've read MANY recipes in the past three years.)

Has anyone used this technique and/or recipe?

http://oldworldgardenfarms.com/2013/04/05/home-made-artisan-bread-recipe-prepared-in-minutes/

 

 

TIA

 

DavidEF's picture
DavidEF

It does seem a bit suspect to me, too. I just looked at it briefly, but it seems to contradict a lot of what I think I know about how to make good bread. It may be edible, but "Artisan" is a strong word I would hesitate to use.

Conjuay's picture
Conjuay

Agreed. 'Rustic' would work much better.

DavidEF's picture
DavidEF

McLoaf!

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

as an optional ingredient in some breads and not all that unusual.  I like it in cheesy, olive and tomato focaccia or in a pizza dough if the sauce isn't too spicy with red pepper flakes. Some put it in rye or pumpernickel too. You will get quite a few hits using pepper in the search box on this site.

Conjuay's picture
Conjuay

Sure, in bread that has other stuff; it wouldn't seem like a stretch. But in this context it seemed out of place. My thought was that it was being used to counter the heavy yeast, but from all the replies it would seem I need to continue my education.

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

no knead, whole wheat bread to me - the kind that made Jim Lehey famous for being a great bread baker and pretty much revitalizing the home bread baking movement..

suave's picture
suave

Of course apart from the step where she uses 1.5 tablespoons of yeast.  That's more like the original revolutionary Herzberg/Francois bread.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

which is quite unlike the 1/4 tsp Sullivan Street no knead with an 18 hour rise!.  I was just brousing the KAF site and even KAF calls this particular bread artisan like and notes H&F's bread here that also uses the 1 1/2 T of yeast - no wonder it only takes 5 minutes:-)

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/no-knead-crusty-white-bread-recipe

suave's picture
suave

As applied to bread-baking the word "artisan" has been completely devalued, it's really like crude, bad joke nowadays.  As to te KAF recipe, since they set a cup at 4oz, proportionally their recipe probably contains even more yeast.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

and it can be done.  Needs the pepper if you ask me.  I've seen recipes with more pepper.  It will taste similar to white sauce on biscuits.  I think the stone will not be available to most who will skip that part.  The loaf in the article looks very pale on the bottom, or what I can see of it.

I once did an experiment with lots of yeast.  Speeds up the rise, the boys ate it all.  The smell of fresh bread baking got their attention and killing it was satisfying for them.  I think they tore it apart when it was still warm.  I just told them they could have it.  I did get one bite.  Less yeasty taste than one might think.  It works.

suave's picture
suave

Mini, I don't think anyone doubts it's possible, but in my opinion your story captured the essence of this recipe perfectly.  It needs to be hot, quick, and best gone by tomorrow.  Sort of like one night stand.

davidg618's picture
davidg618

6.5 cups of flour = 780g (approximately.)

3 cups of H2O = 708g

Hydration = 90%

Now look at the pictures: the shaggy mix and the firm dough ball. No way is this a 90% hydration dough, more likely its in the  60's . Yet another example of the inaccuracy of volume measurements, or a transcription error.

As to the pepper: 1/4 tsp in 6.5 cups of flour. You would have to have the palette of a Master Sommellier to discern its flavor.

Otherwise I agree with MIni, et al, but I suspect even with the correct hydration it would likely be a ho-hum loaf.

David G

 

 

suave's picture
suave

By my math it would be about 880g of flour and 80% hydration.  Which does not in any way affect the rest of your argument.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

with one cup at 130g for flour (845g)  and 238g for water (714g)  a heavy flour cup gives a lower hydration.  And then we are back at cups 'n' fun.  The old rule then applies to hold back a little on the water while mixing. (or was that flour?)   

A agree, the pictures look closer 75% than a higher hydration.  Now a funny thing happens when I take my dry measure cup and walk over to the sink, fill the dry cup (the one used for flour) with water and weight it.  It comes out to 206g!  Now when I figure that in to the hydration --->  73%  wow!  That would look like the photos.  So...  This recipe uses the dry cup measure for liquids!

DavidEF's picture
DavidEF

I looked at the recipe that dabrownman posted a link to at KAF. It does look similar to this recipe, and all the comments I read were positive, except for one that said it was too salty for their taste, but they might try again with less salt. Apparently, it is actually a good recipe, as Mini and others have pointed out. It seems like it would be a good one for beginning bakers particularly. I just still can't get past it being called "Artisan" bread. It still seems like that is too much of a reach. I think, as suave pointed out, the word "Artisan" as it applies to bread-baking has been too devalued. I suspect that any traditional artisan baker would be insulted if someone accused him/her of making their bread this way.

Wild-Yeast's picture
Wild-Yeast

"The Naming of Cats" by T.S. Eliot is always a good read when it comes naming discussions. I've grown to really love the genius of that work.

The word "Artisan" is used to sell everything from soup to nuts - it's so overused that advertising agencies have resorted to replacing it with "home made" instead. The important point is anything that entices people to get into baking is good - it allows individuals a certain pride of ownership in maintaining a core human need - basic nutrition...,

Wild-Yeast

davidg618's picture
davidg618

and its adjective form, artisanal, sounds almost obscene.

David G

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

invented by marketing folks to promote a higher price for a product that is supposedly a higher quality and deserves a higher price as a result of this supposed higher quality.  It has nothing to do with what artisan really means.

The real definition of 'artisan' product is quite different.  It is a product that is perceived, by other artisans of that trade, to be the highest quality that is made by hand, meaning without the use of machines, by a real artisan.

There are many artisan bakers the world over today, who do make artisan bread without machines of any kind.  No  mixers, shapers, commercial electric or gas ovens, Etc..... who hand make their bread totally by hand and bake it in wood fired ovens and many make ntheir living this way.  .  It is really quite common and the allure to make bread this way is a powerful one and the bread they produce is unique. 

It is my belief, not held by many others it seems,  that real artisans, including atisan bread makers, need their 'Artisan title' and livelihood protected, especially by enthusiast bakers foiund on TFL.  Protected from those who would attempt to dumb down the meaning of artisan to fit what ever personal agenda they might have and want to promote - to the detriment of real artisans. 

We have a title for great bakers who are perceived to be the best of their trade, by others like them, but choose to use machines in their baking methods - they are called Master Bakers. This title doesn't come easy and it too needs protection - a protection that others can easily and clearly see.  Maybe this is why Master Bakers aren't called Artisan Bakers instead - since the definition of artisan has been dumbed down to the point of being meaningless by so many 'Me Too, Me Too's' marketers out there.

Others will certainly disagree with my thoughts but, in really, the rest of us are some other kind of baker.....  professional baker, home baker, enthusiast baker, commercial baker......and those are titles we should be just as happy to have and hold them dear - rather than usurping 'Artisan' from those it belongs to.

My thoughts on this are my own, aren't mean spirited in any way and should not be taken as such by anyone.

Happy Baking. 

davidg618's picture
davidg618

and I guess "home" and "enthusiastic" are adjectives that I could wear comfortably. However, l'm more for action, verbs. I hope my family, friends, and neighbors simply say, "He bakes.".

David G