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100% whole oat (flour) sandwich bread

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fuzzykiwi's picture
fuzzykiwi

100% whole oat (flour) sandwich bread

I'm looking for a recipe to make a decent sandwich bread using only whole oat flour as the grain/flour, there can be additives (gum, gluten, etc.) to make it rise, just no other 'flours' (rice, tapioca, etc.). I am allergic to wheat but I am not gluten sensitive. thank you all for your time.

FueledByCoffee's picture
FueledByCoffee

I've never done anything quite like this but considering you have a flour with essentially no gluten I'd start by making a preferment that is going to be similar to your final dough to see how it acts and to add flavor.  Maybe try starting with a preferment of 100 oat flour, 68 water, 2 salt (or less if you prefer less salt), 1 IDY, 4-5 wheat gluten.  feel how the dough is acting, whether it is building up good strength (if the 4-5 percent of wheat gluten will be sufficient to hold the loaf together and give you the rise that you need).  This should be a relatively quick preferment considering how high the yeast is but you can always slow it down in the fridge.   If you want there is a whole host of other stuff you could add to your final dough to enhance the flavor whether it be brown sugar, honey, raisins, or a whole host of other interesting things that can be stuffed into bread ;).  My guess is that you may end up needing to go up on vital wheat gluten (you can do this during your mix if it isn't coming together properly).  Doing a simple test like this and making a preferment which is basically a mini batch of your dough should start to give you an idea of what adjustments need to be made.

fuzzykiwi's picture
fuzzykiwi

Thanks for the idea, but I am not familiar with these terms and measurements/formulas. can you help me with a recipe using weight (grams)? I would greatly appreciate it. I tried an oat recipe recently, but it did not work too well, really good flavor, but it was like a very wet cake with a stiff rubbery crust!

FueledByCoffee's picture
FueledByCoffee

Oh, sorry, I was just formulating via percentages as it is the easiest way.  When converting to grams it's all a matter of how much you are trying to make...so if you wanted to base your recipe off of a kilo of flour you would just add a 0 to the end of everything.  or if you want 500 grams of flour multiply all the numbers by 5.  Easy easy math :).  These would probably more like final dough weights though. So for your preferment you could even start with that 100 and just make it 100 grams, or you could do less preferment than that and divide it by 2 which would give you 50 g flour 34 g water, 1 g salt, 3 g (6% vital wheat gluten), .5g yeast.  As I said, this will probably be a pretty fast preferment but it will give you an idea of how your final dough would feel.  It's hard for me to make you a recipe when I don't know what type of a yield you are looking for?  2 500 gram loaves? 2 750 gram loaves?  you know what I mean?

DoubleMerlin's picture
DoubleMerlin

Try making a gluten-filled oat flour. I don't think 4-5 percent will work. Most vital wheat gluten is only 80% effective gluten, so if you want 10% gluten (like King Arthur AP flour) you'd need 12.5g of gluten per 100g flour.

Then try making a bread according to any recipe. Be careful not to over knead the dough. Like rye, oats have a different starch profile than wheat that suffers when it is over-mixed. Because of this, also be sure to let the bread sit for at least 6 hours after baking, otherwise the inside might not be fully set. You're likely to have a slightly gooey bread no matter what, so make sure the internal temperature is 205˚ F. If you don't have a thermometer, just keep baking it.

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

why advise them to add gluten to their bread?

fuzzykiwi, you may want to some searches for gluten free, or gf, or chia, or gum, or starch.  There have been some recent gluten-free (which also means wheat free) breads posted recently that may help.

Paul

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Paul is absolutely correct on both counts-vital gluten is vital WHEAT gluten so do NOT use any of that if you are allergic to wheat.

Is there a particular reason you want to do oat flour as your only grain?It makes a really dense loaf that can be gummy when it is by itself. There is a whole world of choices out there for wheat allergic individuals that may be better tasting and with a more enjoyable texture. Rice, brown rice, quinoa, sorghum, teff, amaranth, millet, corn, oats, rye, bean flours. And then there are starches such as potatoe starch, tapioca, arrowroot, corn. Mix some non-wheat flour with a non-wheat starch and you have a delicious loaf/cake/wrap,etc,etc. Chia seeds,flax and psyllium all act as wonderful binders that can make a good loaf of bread.

Check out the "Baking for special needs" forum and use the search box.

FueledByCoffee's picture
FueledByCoffee

I think both of us suggested going the gluten route because the person who posted it said that gluten was okay - i took that to mean that they have tried using vital wheat gluten and doing react to it?

clazar123's picture
clazar123

But, fuzzykiwi, I hope you know that gluten (as in vital wheat gluten) is made from wheat. A person with an allergy to wheat will usually react to the wheat protein in wheat gluten.

Rye may be an option for you? Most folks can find a few alternatives to choose from.

 

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Almond flour could be an alternative if tree nuts are not an issue.

Please provide more information-there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum and people that like to help solve these kinds of issues!

Do you have a recipe for what you have tried so far? Have you ever baked bread of any kind before? We have all started from the beginning-even the most experienced among us- so don't be shy. People that post here are really passionate about bread and we really want to help others make bread that they enjoy.

Tell us what you have found out so far.

clazar123's picture
clazar123

http://www.ellenskitchen.com/forum/messages/2350.html

You have to scroll down the blog but there are several recipes posted. It seems it is a discussion with recipes for people with all kinds of restrictions for all manner of reasons (allergy, health, dietary choices).

 

http://home.comcast.net/~vhdolcourt/gfbaking/breads/Oat%20Sandwich%20Loaf.html

Another interesting post, though he has experimented and comments on using 100% oat flour vs oatflour with a starch

fuzzykiwi's picture
fuzzykiwi

True, Gluten Free = Wheat Free, 

Just to clarify my dilemma, here is a quick guide to several jewish dietary laws involving grains/bread.

According to jewish laws there are different types of 'bread' encompassing what we (nowadays) call bread, cake, cookies, pancakes, dough-nuts, pasta, and other foods made from grains. There are different blessing to be made depending on what grain is used and what the production process is and what the end product looks like. For example, foods that are fried are generally one blessing 'mezonos' (lit. grain) foods that are cooked are are also the same blessing, while foods baked in an oven are sometimes 'mezonos' and somtimes 'ha-motzie lechem' (lit. bread), depending on what percentages and perceived taste are from the other ingredients in the cake / bread. to be considered bread it must be made as kneaded dough and then baked in an oven, whilst cake, is made as batter (with a whole lot more sweetening than bread) and then baked in an oven. On the sabbath, jews must have 3 meals commencing with bread. But to even be considered in this category there are only 5  actual grains all others are seeds. The 5 grains are Wheat, Barley, Spelt, Rye, and Oats. Oats being the only one that don't have gluten, they are very attractive to gluten-free jews who would like to be able to fulfill their obligations properly. So, any ideas for a 'bread' made with oat flour?

fuzzykiwi's picture
fuzzykiwi

whole-grain only for years

I have been baking my own bread for many years, but recently i have been getting a very tired / lethargic feeling after eating wheat products. hence my interest in oats which i have been eating for the past 17 years. the recipe i use for bread gets rave reviews from anyone who eats it. lemme know if anybody wants to try it.

clazar123's picture
clazar123

I have looked for a sandwich loaf type 100% oatbread recipe but have not been successful. I don't think an all oats recipe gives any semblance of a sandwich loaf texture.It may work as a flatbread/tortilla like bread. It needs another flour to raise its texture.

I am unclear on exactly what the grain restrictions are that you are describing but wish to understand them better.  Does your bread have to be made with only one of the 5 grains (all wheat or all rye) or can you mix the grains in 1 loaf (a mix of wheat and oats)? Can you mix seed flour such as rice flour, sorghum, millet, amaranth, teff or quinoa with any of the 5 grains in a single loaf? Are these seed flours allowed in your diet?

Spelt can make a lovely bread but is a bit tricky to work with, I have heard. Is that an alternative for you? It is related to wheat.

fuzzykiwi's picture
fuzzykiwi

The 5 grains can be mixed 

with each other, but adding other seed flours, up to certain percentages would be ok, but preferably not. Anyway, my family does not appreciate the flavor of spelt and it gives me terrible gas. barley is weird, rye is way too sour and wet. so that leaves us with oats. 

I am looking for recipe using only oats as the flour/grain, but obviously it will need something to hold the bubbles when rising (on account of no gluten). I was thinking of maybe some of the gums? Will that help it resemble a knead-able dough?

 

clazar123's picture
clazar123

I have done some gluten free baking-enough to know that you really need some structure to hold the bubbles. A starch (like tapioca,cornstarch or potatoe starch) or a seed "flour"(rice,sorghum,millet,teff,buckwheat,etc) and then a binder (gum) like xanthan,guar,psyllium,chia seeds or flax seeds. Also, anything that can flavor the loaf is a good thing as these flours and starches are very bland. The best tasting recipe I've ever had included buttermilk, eggs, sugar and butter.

An alternative to a yeast based bread may be taking a lesson from Irish soda bread and using an acid and baking soda to provide some bubbles in the oatbased dough.

Rye does not have to be sour-I prefer sweet myself or at least neutral. If you search this site for MiniOven's 100% Rye, she has a great writeup. 100% rye is dense and chewy(never gummy) but can be delightfully delicious.

I found some links to a few different recipes. If they don't exactly match your needs, they may be close and be amenable to adaptation.

This one has some potato starch, and either cornstarch or tapioca starch and a small amount rice flour:

http://www.yammiesglutenfreedom.com/2012/11/gluten-free-honey-oat-bread.html

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This next link has a mix that can be bought but I don't think you want to do that. The interesting thing about this link is that it has a recipe to follow on the package and there are amounts of the ingredients on the package. You may be able to devise your own recipe. Also, I think it may be more flavorful for the toasted oats. Consider doing that before you grind the oats for flour.

http://www.montanaglutenfree.com/gluten_free_toasted_oat_bread_mix

 

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I have this proofer! Excellent! The recipe actually looks intriguing.

http://brodandtaylor.com/gluten-free-bread-recipe/

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This oatbased loaf will have different characteristics than baking with wheat. It will probably be more like a batter bread and whether you use yeast or baking powder/soda, it will not necessarily rise very much. The yeasted loaf is mixed, panned, rises once  and bakes. There is no bulk fermentation and then a  proofing after shaping. This loaf does well with a little longer bake at 375F to allow more of the moisture to evaporate so the crumb is not moist or gummy.

I hope this helps! Please- Post your results so we may all benefit.

fuzzykiwi's picture
fuzzykiwi

will try these 

forgot to mention, we are not allowed to make dairy bread, so i will try some substitutions. i am aiming for the least number of ingredients, my usual whole-wheat recipe is just 7 ingredients; flour, water oil, honey, eggs, yeast and salt. but that's wheat, so it kneads and rises as expected. my goal is to get a light-ish almost sandwich/slicing bread out of oats. 

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Non-dairy is never a problem to substitute-I frequently use soy or almond milk and even beer or broth of some kind. Water is acceptable, of course. You may need 9 ingredients in order to get some fluff in that loaf but that's not too bad.

You may get a more acceptable texture for sandwich use if you make sandwich thins. This is about a 3-4 ounce piece of dough that is flattened into about a 3-4 inch circle, risen and then baked. Kind of like a flat roll-it ends up being about 3/4 inch thick. Slice it open and enjoy!