The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

second batch

yamum360's picture
yamum360

second batch

so I've just baked by second batch, took some pictures and I'm hoping for some feedback.

the method i used involved a refrigerated starter, I removed it from the fridge, added half of my mother starter (as it was time for a feeding anyway) mixed it and left for a few hours to reach room temperature, scooped out 200g, and added 100g of feed and 100g of water, then left it to double, this i divided evenly into two bowls, in one bowl i threw 8 cups of wholemeal, the other, 8 cups of rye and hefty amount of seeds (flax, poppy, chia), to each I added a tablespoon of salt, then added water until I got a dough I was happy with, kneaded for 10/15 minutes, then divided each in half and shaped into loaves. I let these proof overnight, covered with a wet cloth (about 12 hours). First thing this morning I preheated my oven to 200C and baked one of the wholemeal, one of the rye (on a pizza stone) and didn't get nearly as much oven spring as I expected, in fact I barely got any. will post more pictures of these once they've cooled enough to cut into.

so I knocked back the other two, gave them a quick knead, reshaped and currently have them rising again, uncovered. is there something I should be doing differently? I'm quite an experienced baker with commercial bakers yeast, but am still very new to sourdough, I thought that maybe I should just go back to baking with white and work from there, but I'd rather not.

yamum360's picture
yamum360

The wholemeal loaf, tastes right, but doesn't look it

Ford's picture
Ford

Twelve hours is a long time to proof sourdough at room temperature.  I proof mine about 2 hours at room temperature..  The acid promotes the hydrolysis of the gluten and after 12 hours there is probably not enough gluten left to hold the gas.

Just looking at your picture of the crumb, the thought occurred to me that you under baked the loaf as well. The interior temperature should be  190° to 200°F (88° to 93° C).

Ford

yamum360's picture
yamum360

I thought it might also be the salt, I've tried another batch which I used a preferment for (about 12 hours fermentation) then I made the dough, the preferment makes up around 1/4-1/3 of the bulk of my dough, which I've let rest overnight (I should note that it's winter here, and room temperature overnight is about 10-13C, is overnight still too long a proof at this temp?) first thing this morning I added salt and kneaded it through and shaped my loaves, which are currently proofing at room temperature; about 20C. I know a second proof isn't really needed for sourdough but using the delayed salt method I see no other option, do you do a second proof? if so how long are your first and second proofs?

yamum360's picture
yamum360

that's certainly an interesting alternative to kneading, almost seems like magic, the french really know their food don't they? I've got another batch on the go at the moment, just did my first stretch and fold, will post the results when I'm done but it's looking good, the dough is certainly more pliable than my last few batches :)

yamum360's picture
yamum360

so I've finally finished with these next two loaves (batch #4) and they've turned out great! still not getting as much oven spring as I would like but this time I've turned out two edible loaves (I think, haven't cut into them yet but I'm quite sure) I can't tell you how much help you've been Davo, I'm sure that without you I would've made many more failures before turning these out.

the floured one is wholemeal (i did the thing with the bowl and teatowel you described) the other is 50/50 white and rye, can't wait to have some for breakfast tomorrow!