The Fresh Loaf

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Wild rye sourdough is not rising

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april loves bread's picture
april loves bread

Wild rye sourdough is not rising

Hi,

 

I'm attempting Jamie Olivers sourdough recipe (equal parts rye / water) my starter made a hooch!  It bubbles etc so I know it is vibrant.

 

After I add the remaining rye flour to my starter to form the dough (2x the orginal amount) and knead it a good 5-10 minutes, and leave it.... nothing seems to happen!  No rise is 12-15 hours!  

 

Any advice?    

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Whole rye has no gluten, but only glutelin, and will not rise much, anyway.

Karin

 

april loves bread's picture
april loves bread

I was worried that I under kneaded it!  How do you know when to quit kneading?

vtsteve's picture
vtsteve

Did you reserve any of the starter, so you won't have to "start" from scratch again? If not, pinch off a piece of your dough before you bake it! I proof rye loaves at 80+F; if your kitchen is cool, it could take a long time for your dough to grow. What recipe are you using? How many days have you been feeding the starter?

april loves bread's picture
april loves bread

Hi!  Yes, I did save some starter.  :)  I've been feeding my starter 7 days now :)

We are in SW Florida so the kitchen is pretty warm, around 75 degrees but goes up to 80 when I'm cooking (lunch and dinner).  

I'm using Jamie Olivers Recipe.  Posted below:  

Monday: Mix 500g of organic rye flour with enough water to make a soft dough in a bowl. Put it outside for an hour and then bring inside, cover with plastic wrap and put in a warm place. (he mentions that organic rye flour is necessary as traces of anything in regular rye flour might interfere with the natural yeasts being cultivated)

Tuesday: It will start to bubble. Leave it alone.

Wednesday: The mix will continue to bubble and go slightly grey. Stir in a handful of flour and a little bit of water, enough to get the mixture back to the same consistency as on Monday. Leave it covered again.

Thursday: Leave it alone

Friday: By now the mixture should be beery, malty smelling and ashy coloured. Make the bread by adding all of this starter dough mix to 1kg of strong flour, then add enough water to make a firm, pliable dough that isnt sticky. Knead for a good 5 minutes. Remove a 500g piece of dough for your next starter before adding any salt, cover and put to one side, ready to repeat the process the next day and so on, etc. Add salt if you want to. SHape the dough and put it into a bowl or tin lined with a floured tea towel. Leave for 14 hours.

Saturday morning: Bake the bread. Preheat the oven to 190 degrees C. Gently turn the dough out on to a floured baking tray, cut quite deep slashes into it, and bake for 1 hour or until it is crisp and sounds hollow when tapped on the bottom. Allow to cool.

Fred Rickson's picture
Fred Rickson

Two comments for you.....Because of rye's stickiness, I have always found that oil on my hands works better than flour when handling the dough (that's making an 80% rye dough), and the idea that organic flour is "necessary" or you will kill your starter is just plain nonsense.

april loves bread's picture
april loves bread

the oil on hands is A GREAT BEST TIP!!!!!!!!!

vtsteve's picture
vtsteve

The all-rye breads that I make are *very* sticky; it's "paste", not dough. Really.

A rye dough that's dry enough to be handled easily is too dry to show much movement. Are you doing a hearth loaf, or is it proofing in a pan? If you dust the top of the loaf with a little rye flour, it will show cracks in the surface when the dough expands (even if it's hard to tell otherwise). If it smells like it's fermenting, I'd let it go a little longer and bake it. I've never met a thinly-sliced rye that I didn't like!

april loves bread's picture
april loves bread

I baked a small risen loaf of rye today :)  It was edible.  Not perfect but edible.  :)  This is progress!!!!!!!! Thank you for your help!

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Oliver's recipe is not a good SD recipe for beginners. There are too many variables in my opinion. How much is "a handful"? Do you exactly know what a "soft dough" should be like?

For making a soft dough from your 500 g rye flour , you will need at least 75% water if not more. That's already about 875 g. Then you throw in a handful of rye flour, perhaps 100 g, adding again at least 75% water, ending up with about 1050 g, or more.

You add all this starter to 1 kg of bread flour, that must be more than 50%. That can not really result in a pliable (elastic) dough that is not sticky.

Starting out with a rye sourdough, I would advise you to use a proven recipe with exact amounts (lots to find in TFL) so that you know what you are dealing with, and what might need to be changed the next time you bake the same bread.

Karin

april loves bread's picture
april loves bread

You're right, I should find a beginners recipe BUT My starter is doing so well, and I can't bring myself to start over. 

 

Today I added some bread flour (instead of rye) to my starter and the dough really felt like bread dough.  :)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I don't get it.  Once you have a starter going, it can be used in many recipes.  ???