The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

White Whole Wheat with Combo YW, Poolish, SD Starter, Water Roux and Wheat Berry Scald

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

White Whole Wheat with Combo YW, Poolish, SD Starter, Water Roux and Wheat Berry Scald

I had some KA WWW flour that was almost 8 months old hanging around doing nothing.  We like whole grains around here mostly but needed to get rid of the WWW in some kind of bread.  We hate throwing flour away for any reason if possible even if it flour we don’t use much.

 

We also wanted to try out the water roux method by using 25 g of flour mixed with 125 g of water and cooked on the stove top until it sets up like a thick gravy.  It weighed 135 g when done.  The roux was not used in the hydration calculations in the formula.  We also made a scald with wheat berries and saved the soaker water for the liquid in the dough.

  

After reading lumos’s post on adding a pinch of yeast to his last baguette post  we decided to go all in on a 3 way leavening by making a quick 4 hour poolish with50 gof autolyse and a pinch of yeast along with separately prepared YW and SD starters.  This is a first, at least for us if you include my faithful apprentice Lucy, at making a triple threat leavening for one loaf of bread

  

We were into 4’s so after we did the 4 hour scald and 4 hour poolish we did the 4 hour autolyse with the soaker water and the rest of the non leavening and  soaker ingredients.   After all of these 4’s we decided to continue with them a little longer.

 

We thought we would limit ourselves to a 4 hour maximum, after the autolyse met the leavens, before the finished dough hit the fridge, panned up, for a 40 hour retard as has been our norm of late.

 

After mixing them together with a spoon we let the dough sit for 15 minutes before starting 12 minutes of French slap and folds.  By the time you take out the time for scraping up the counter a sew times we figure we had about 10 good minutes of slapping and folding the dough around and it made a beautifully smooth ball when formed.

 

We then let the dough sit for 15 minutes before doing the first of 3 S&F’s that were performed 15 minutes apart.  We incorporated the scalded and soaked wheat berries on the first set and they were fairly distributed after the 3rd.

Red sky in the mnorning , baker take warning. 

We let the dough rest for 1 hour to ferment and develop before panning it up using S&F’s to try to corral this wet dough into something resembling a loaf.   Even though the dough hydration is low at 68% it really is much wetter with the roux and scald contributing extra water. It felt like a high 70’s hydration and the reason we panned it. 

We let it proof for 1 hour on the counter, in a used trash can liner (for bread only), before placing the tin of dough in the fridge for its anticipated slow proofing for 40 hours.

My apprentice gets all excited when we try something new and is always skeptical that her master can pull off these odd bakes we seem to make on the fly.   With a water roux included and an added commercial pinch poolish, her master wasn’t too sure that a 40 hour retard could be met either in all truthfulness.

You don’t know for sure how things will work out till you do and my apprentice thought we, meaning I,  could always keep and eye out for the dough to double and bake it off ahead of time if required, if we weren’t asleep - and my apprentice is asleep nearly 16 hours a day it seems.  But, it looked OK after its long proofing rest and had risen just above the lip of the tin and near ready for the oven.

We decided to bake off the loaf in the big oval Magnalite Turkey Roaster like we do some tinned other breads on occasion.  It can really do steam with the trivet insert and water on the bottom.  It puts the best crust on bread that we have discovered to date.

We took the dough out of the fridge to warm up a little and finish proofing for and hour before Betsy was fired up to heat the roster to 450 F.  The loaf was slashed right before the tin went in the roaster with a half a cup of water.  The lid went on and the roaster went back in the oven.

We steamed the bread for 15 minutes before taking the lid off, removing the bread and let it continue baking at 425 F, convection this time,  another 10 minutes.  We rotated the tin 180 degrees every 5 minutes to ensure even browning.  We also removed the bread  from the tin at the 30 minute mark and finished the baking on the oven rack.

The bread did not spring at all in the roaster or out of it but it or bloom at the cut either.  It did blister and browned up as expected though.  Well. At least it didn’t over-proof so much that it fell when slashed or in the oven.  40 hours with 2 levains  adn poolish working must have been too much for it even though it only rose to the rim of the pan. 

Can’t wait for the bread to cool and slice to see how it compares to our normal boule crumb for this kind of bread after adding in a water roux and a 3rd leaving with the 4 hour poolish. 

It is now sliced and eaten.  Just delicious.  Very wheaty in taste.  The crumb was pretty open for a bread with whole grains and so much soaker.  It had to be the 3 leavens working together.  they couldn't get it to spring and bloom but the crumb was moist as can be, tasty and chewy with the soaker.  This is a really =nice sandwich bread that can be sliced very thin which is great for those of us who need to watch out bread intake.  We like it a lot.  Toasted with butter is a dream come true.

Formula

Combo YW & SD   Starter

Build 1

Total

%

WWW & AP SD Starter

10

10

1.94%

White Whole Wheat

62.5

62.5

12.14%

AP

62.5

62.5

12.14%

Yeast Water

75

75

14.56%

Water

50

50

9.71%

Total

185

260

35.92%

 

 

 

 

SD Starter Totals

 

%

 

Flour

130

25.24%

 

Water

130

25.24%

 

Starter Hydration

100.00%

 

 

Levain % of Total

 

23.34%

 

 

 

 

 

Dough Flour

 

%

 

Red Malt

2

0.39%

 

Toadies

6

1.17%

 

Vital Wheat Gluten

5

0.97%

 

White Malt

2

0.39%

 

White Whole Wheat

185

35.92%

 

AP

185

35.92%

 

Total Dough Flour

385

74.76%

 

 

 

 

 

Salt

9

1.75%

 

 

 

 

 

Soaker Water

225

43.69%

 

 

 

 

 

Dough Hydration

58.44%

 

 

 

 

 

 

Add - Ins

 

%

 

Water Roux

135

26.21%

 

Total

135

26.21%

 

 

 

 

 

Total Flour w/ Starter

515

 

 

Total Water w/ Starter

355

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hydration w/ Starter   & Adds

68.93%

 

 

Total Weight

1,114

 

 

% Whole Grain

54.17%

 

 

 

 

 

 

Water Roux is not   included in hydration calculations

Comments

hanseata's picture
hanseata

OMG, Dabrownman, you put toadies in your bread? Poor little creatures, did you capture them in damp corners of your basement? Or did you hunt them down near a pond?

That's why your loaf has all those warts!

I wonder should I call the SPCA?

Most upset,

Karin

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

that Tom's Toadies would put warts on bread but I will have to take your word for it and talk to him about his bread additive too.  We don't have basements here since the ground is mainly caliche, a fancy word for hard as rock and twice as tough.   You need dynamite to blast a hole for a basement and most builders draw the line at using dynamite and calling it cost effective. 

I tried to dig a large hole in my back yard to use as a cistern when I back washed the pool so dirty water wouldn't go all over the back yard.  I wanted a hole that was the size of a double grave and went to work.  After a month of digging a 1/4" down at a time with a pick and then watering the caliche to soften it up some and hitting it again with pick,  I was one grave wide and long but only a foot deep.  But being part German and determined like my apprentice who is all German,  after working on it all winter long, more than 4 months, I had it 4 feet deep and called it good enough for Arizona.   After 5 years of back washing I had filled it in with back washed diatomaceous earth, a fancy word for microscopic sea shells used as a filter for pool water.   It was nearly a total waste of time in the end  like having my apprentice catch toads at the lake.  They scare her but heck, she is afraid of her own shadow too.

I'm guessing that those warts came from the commercial yeast biga reacting to the 40 hour retard and the fierce steam of the MagnaWare Turkey Roaster sans turkey.  But I'm still going to talk to Tom about his Toadies just to be safe.

My apprentice calls the ASPCA every day claiming her apprenticeship is really doggie torture but stopped when she saw a menu with her name on it as an invited guest that featured Korean BBQ as the main course.  She may be dumb but at least she can read Korean.   

varda's picture
varda

Hi DA,   I thought for sure you had topped that bread with cheese.   But it wasn't anywhere on the list.   What made it bubble up so?    The color is beautiful.   Can't wait to see what's inside.   I see you are up to your rye malt ways.   I must say I'm suspicious of that flavor combo.   I'm baking with rye malt today - chocolate Borodinsky on deck.   Hope Karin doesn't call the SPCA on you.   I know you mean well.   -Varda

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

the bubbly crust was a combination of the YW commercial yeast biga and the water roux.  The top looked all bubbled up without the color when the lid came off the MagnaWare.  That turkey roaster puts crust on bread like white on rice.  Nothing is even close to what it can do.

This particular batch of malt is multi- grain one where rye is just 1/6th of the mix.  The last time we did multi-grain sprouts  for a bread we were doing  we made malt from half of the batch. 

You would like this bread Varda.  It is the best tasting mainly wheat bread we have made.  Hopefully the wife will like it better than straight SD variety I baked for her sandwiches :-)  I'm still trying to get her off the Oroweat Whole Wheat crack bread. 

I love your beautifully crumby Double Chocolate Malt Borodinsky.   Good luck with it. 

Have you ever done any water roux breads?

Happy baking,....... I think the ASPCA is at the door.   Nope, just one of Lucy's friends asking for some toads. :-)

varda's picture
varda

Have you ever done any water roux breads?

Just once - Syd's Asian Style Pain de Mie, which I posted on maybe before your time.   I keep meaning to go back to it - it's so delicious but not as healthy as your creations being a highly enriched bread.   

I don't even have half of the stuff you bake with.   I would take me days to get it all together.   But I'll have to do it sometime just to see what your mad creations taste like.  

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

your take on Syd's Pain de Mie well.   It turned out very well as  remember.  Even Syd was impressed!   A very enriched dough that is not as bad for me as brioche or laminated doughs.  I didn't try one because of a personal problem.....No Pullman Pans...My birthday is coming up for those that care and  are reading this - I know who you are too :-)  I had two of them scoped out at Goodwill.   I could have bought them for $3.99 each but no!! ....I waited for dollar Thursday ato get then bothe for $2 but they were both gone as some other bread baker spied a deal and stole away with them on Wednesday night - late :-)

This bake didn't really have much in the way of odd ingredients with old WWW, AP  and wheat berries with some other stuff  easily made or you have on hand.   Any thing you don't have just forget about it - the bread won't miss the missing parts anyway :-)   It is about as basic as one of my breads seems to get now a days.  One of my cousins is sending me some armadillo nectar,  hopefully not road kill,  so I can impress Ian.  Distilling armadillo into a nectar can be difficult, time consuming, expensive and complicated but my cousin is a master at distilling anything worth drinking in smaller amounts.   Ian will then have to come up with the possum pelt in bread to top that :-)

Happy Baking Varda!

isand66's picture
isand66

I can just imagine your Lucy chasing after the toads while you tried to trap them in your mixing bowl :)

I have been very interested to try a water/flour roux so I'm glad you gave it a try.  Did you find it added anything special for all the effort?

Either way I love that bubbly crust and your crumb looks nice and moist and open like we like it.

I have coffee multi-grain with rye berries and other assorted things waiting to go into the heat tomorrow.  I used coffee for the starter, coffee for the soaker and coffee for the remaining liquid along with a plethora of different flours.  My starter sprung right back to life after a 2 week snooze in the fridge.  I will have to make a YW bread next.

Great baking DA.

Regards,
Ian

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

corralling toads than I am at trapping them in anything much less a mixing bowl :-)

The crumb is very moist but that could be from the YW too.  I need to bake more straight SD breads with water roux in the mix to know what it does.  I know it is supposed to make the bread crumb more moist and soft like YW.   That is about all I know but  I have tasked my apprentice to get the entire skinny of water Roux memorized before she can play with any more toads I can't catch.  I do have and old butterfly net from my hippie days though.......

Glad toy starters came back to life easily.  Coffee for the liquid in bread is one of your signatures so we await your latest concoction inspired by your Far Eastern trip.

Bake Again Ian!

 

FlourChild's picture
FlourChild

The complexity of your loaves makes it very fun and interesting to follow your posts.  Advantage of a full or slightly over proof is more flavor, so this must have tasted great.  

What do you think the roux does for the crumb?  Emulsification?  Tenderizer?

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

This is a fine tasting bread.  The 40 hour retard helped with the taste too.  My wife even likes it since it isn't that sour at all.  We like fun and interesting bakes too!  The water roux is supposed to lend moistness and softness to the crumb but we don't know how much since the yeast water does the same thing :-(  We are pretty sure that the gelatinization the roux provided also helped with the deep mahogany color and blistered warts on the crust.    We will have to bake a straight SD with water roux and no YW to see what the real differences are in the crumb.

We have a similar but even more complex bread in the fridge that we will bake tomorrow after its 40 hour sleep - if it makes it that long.   This one has rye and spelt with the WWW and is 60% whole grain - more to our personal liking.  It also has a mix of bread spices, additional seeds and nuts too. 

Glad you liked the bake ....  and happy baking

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Dabrownman.  Not only do you tease us with such nice loaves, you have to add insult to injury with the sunset photos!  :)

That plate, in that evening, is such a beautiful thought right now.

John

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

The turkey roasters sure put the crust on bread!

This on happened to be a sunrise but they are just as nice even though we don't see them as often.

Since my bread attempt today is round, I'm using an aluminum DO. Going to do a cold start for the oven and DO. Haven't done that for awhile.

Happy Baking