The Fresh Loaf

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Hobart C-100 Mixer - service manual? any rebuild experiences?

CarolineR's picture
CarolineR

Hobart C-100 Mixer - service manual? any rebuild experiences?

Hi all,

This is for the Hobart enthusiasts who read TFL.  Thanks, btw, for all the helpful posts.  It's been an education.  I have (for the second time) come close to destroying a N-50 by mixing too-large batches of bread dough; after reading the larger mixer search & recommendation posts, I ended up with a Hobart C-100, model 17664. I realized that I might never be able to obtain parts for it, since it's been out of production for over 20 years, but I was able to find one that was never used.  That should mean that all the parts are in good shape (except perhaps for some unseen rust).  The seller thought it had sat in a warehouse all its life - the warranty card and manual packet were still attached to it with wire.  I'm sure the grease has long since drained out of it, and am ready to take it apart and re-pack it. (And I've bought mixer-specific grease for that purpose.)

So I'm wondering if any of you Hobart fanatics out there who have this machine have ever (like breadman_NZ with his N50) taken yours apart and fixed it?  If so, would you share your experiences, warnings, etc?   And does anyone have a service manual for this beast?  I have scoured the web and not found one.  I did find all the user / parts manuals on Hobart's site, and have downloaded them; if this is all there is, I'm glad to have them.  But it would be so helpful to have a real service & repair manual, if anyone has one.

 

Thanks

Caroline (in eastern MA)

Laurentius's picture
Laurentius

Hi Caroline,

If there is no grease stains, there no reason for your assumtion. You should clean it up and give it a try, before you start taking it apart! Sometimes people finds diamonds, and it sounds as if you have.

 

CarolineR's picture
CarolineR

Alas, the bowl lift was rusted solid, and was almost impossible to move.  The attachment shaft is also heavily rusted, so we've opted to do a teardown/rebuild.  Will post photos when that's done.

CarolineR's picture
CarolineR

Hi all,

We finally have time to tear down the C-100 which we bought last year.   The parts manual has great blow-ups of the planetary, etc., but no instructions on how to disassemble it.  We're hoping someone who else has done this would be willing to share some tips.

We have the motor housing off the base, and have removed the external parts of the planetary.  We've found several screws that were hidden by body putty and paint (one on the plate that holds the planetary in) and we can't get this plate to budge.  Here's what it looks like at this stage:

If anyone can tell us where to look next, we'd appreciate the help!

Thanks

Caroline

CarolineR's picture
CarolineR

I should have added that I'm documenting this teardown and rebuild, and will have lots of photos; when it's done, will post it to FreshLoaf (with thanks to those who have helped us along the way).

Thanks

CR

CarolineR's picture
CarolineR

We concluded that in order to get at the transmission, complete disassembly was about the only option.  (If we'd known this before we bought it, we'd have been looking for A-200's instead.)  I hope to have a photo how-to posted by May, after it's reassembled. Right now all of the "case" parts are out for powder coating.

DLightTexas has guidance on disassembly in his post, which we used to discover how to get our mixer apart.  Basically, you unscrew anything you find.  For each step, first, take a photo documenting where the screws were and what they connected; then label and bag the parts, taking parts off as they are removable. 

Then look for the painted bondo-d screws, remove the bondo and the screws, and again photograph, label, and bag everything, storing the screws etc with the parts they go to.  We used a LOT of gallon ziplocs. 

Eventually, we decided we had to take the head off the pedestal.  That's a time consuming process, but it makes a really awkward maneuver (removing the transmission) more manageable. If you leave the head on the pedestal, the transmission is going to drop on the floor when it comes out; you may end up injuring yourself when it does that.  Safer, we concluded, was to do the reverse of the manual incarnation of a drill press - letting the housing fall, but only an inch, and onto a padding of towels.

My husband did all this work in the kitchen (no garage, temps were zero at the time); we padded the counter top with old towels, and set concrete blocks on those about 18" apart.  He made a frame of 2x4's to sit on top of the blocks.  This 2x4 frame was drilled through, so that the holes lined up over holes in the base plate of the transmission (those were bondo'd btw). He screwed bolts through the 2x4s into those holes, and then used a shorter length of 2x4 as a mallet to bang the "head" on either side of the 2x4 frame (front and back) until the o-ring that holds that plate in place let go, and he was able to get the plate off the mixer. The housing gently dropped onto the towels; no injury, no damage.

There was still the shaft (sorry, I forget the correct name for it - it's on the parts diagram) that connects the motor to the transmission, holding most of the transmission parts in place.  We had to take the hub off to get that out.  Continue the process of "what can you take apart next?"  Eventually, you'll have it in tiny pieces (I think it took at least 10 hours). 

Be sure to document every step, because there's no guidebook (till I put ours together) on how to get it back together, which will be the exact reverse of getting it apart.  You end up with a million little parts and lots look the same, no clue where they belong unless you've carefully corralled them as they came off the mixer.  No way would I remember all of that over the course of 4 months - I'm using the dated/timestamped photos to tell me what came first, what next, and so on.

Hope that helps!  Look forward to reading about your adventures, and as I said, I'll probably have something to post by the end of May.

Here are links to some photos:

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/2131-c.jpg

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/2233-c.jpg

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/2241-c.jpg

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/2260-c.jpg

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/2261-c.jpg

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/2262-c.jpg

Caroline Rumsey

chris319's picture
chris319

Wow, that's quite an undertaking! You and your husband are to be admired.

Iron Rose Farms's picture
Iron Rose Farms

I seem to have an electrical problem with my C100, however in the process of trying to figure that out I dropped the key out of the gear selector. Trying to get the transmission open. Will be trying to duplicate your pictured method but I need to know if the bolts going through the 2 2x4s are bolted into the two side holes that normally hold the planetary ring in place? Any further details or ideas would be so very appreciated!!! Thanks

 

CarolineR's picture
CarolineR

IronRose, I feel for you.  Maybe while you have it open, you can take the time to inspect everything and fix anything that needs work.  The short answer to your question is "I think so."  Below are links to the sequence I described in my earlier post, about attaching bolts to the plate and then trying to get the plate to let go of the housing.

The "head" ready to work on:

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-01.jpg

Bolts test-fitted into the holes:

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-02.jpg

Preliminary marks on the 2x4 "sandwich"

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-03.jpg

Centering the marks on the 2x4s:

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-04.jpg

Scribing the centered marks:

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-05.jpg

Tool used to mark the centers:

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-06.jpg

Verifying that the marks line up with the bolts:

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-07.jpg

Drilling the 2x4s for the bolts:

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-08.jpg

Bolting the 2x4 sandwich to the "head":

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-09.jpg

Testing the fit of the 2x4 frame-he found some warp in the 2x4s

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-10.jpg

Pulling the 2x4s together, removing the warp in one of the boards:

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-11.jpg

Frame ready for concrete block lifts:

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-12.jpg

1st concrete block; note the protection for the countertop!  This is a sheet of thin plywood on top of 3-layer cardboard.  The cardboard allowed us to slide the whole assembly around on the countertop without scratching the counter; the plywood did the actual protection.  (OK, you're warned):

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-13.jpg

There's very little "drop" in this setup - that protects everything inside the head - and if the head were to fall suddenly, it will land on the folded wash cloths, almost invisible, below it:

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-14.jpg

The frame attached to the mixer head, hanging from the concrete blocks:

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-15.jpg

Using a short piece of 2x4 as a hammer.  He smacked down alternately in front of the frame and behind it.  It took a LOT of banging to get it to move:

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-16.jpg

Finally it starts to let go!

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/PlanetaryRemoval-17.jpg

BetsyMePoocho's picture
BetsyMePoocho

WOW!! Hate to hear that you have had a problem with your N-50.  I've been using one since 1997 and have, what I thought , really put it through it's paces....  

You and your husband's C-100 disassembly shows good old "McGyver" get around!  I really hand it to you guys for the effort.

Heavens forbid that you ever have to do this job again,,,, BUT if you do, go to most any auto parts store or Sears and get a puller similar to what I have attached below.......it is just a plain vanilla puller and  it will save you lots of "loud remarks".

When you re-install the gear plate into the housing I'd suggest placing the plate in a ziploc bag in your freezer for a day, it will get "slightly" smaller.  Then will press back into the housing a "little" easier with a "few" less "taps" with the block of wood and hammer.  (If not get a much larger hammer, heh-heh.)

Also get the best gear grease you can find.  I use a water proof grease that has some molybdenum disulfide in it.  Or the following "Molly Grease" from AutoZone.

  http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Coastal-Moly-grease/_/N-255s?itemIdentifier=561761

 

Your shaft bearings should be good.... they are sealed ball bearings on both sides.  But after cleaning them you can "feel" them for any roughness or excessive lateral play to be sure they are OK.

Hopefully all you will have to do is clean everything and pack the gears with "new" grease.......

Best of luck and it is a very messy job, but try to have fun!  Just keep thinking about all the "good stuff" you are going to do with the old C-100.

Hey, just how did you wear out your N-50???

CarolineR's picture
CarolineR

We received these questions from Matt - my answers are ~in italics~:

(1) How far in do you screw the two bolts that you're using to pull it out?  Do they have threading on the transmission housing behind them, or do they simply hit a blank wall and bottom out. 

~The definitive answer to this question will have to wait till my husband gets home from work - I *think* he screwed them in till they bottomed out, but I'm not certain.~

(2) To clarify, in this image (http://imgur.com/Ja5JHdO), it looks like one of the bolts on the transmission plate goes into the transmission housing.  If it does, then no amount of slamming would pull the transmission out since it's still bolted to the unit.

~It's really a pity they picture the transmission case only from above, so there's no official diagram of this.  I'm pretty sure the pin you've circled is an indexing pin - it's still there after everything inside the transmission case is cleaned out:

http://www.honeydolistguy.com/images/photos/c100/CleanedOutHead-2408-a.jpg ~

I did see the post about the generic puller and I'll probably try that in the near future... my impact wrench may give me a leg up on the machine.

~ I urged Ed to take the least violent approach possible (impact wrench: shudder!) and he capitulated. It may actually stand up to that, but I protested at anything more than the 2x4 sledge hammer approach - we already knew that replacement parts aren't available, and as BetsyMePooch pointed out, we hadn't thought of constructing a puller.  Wish we'd thought of that, it's a GREAT idea. ~

freeman.matt's picture
freeman.matt

Thanks for the photo... it confirms my suspicions.  I used the two bolts at 3 and 9 o'clock  (oriented as in your latest photo) to attach the mixer to a 2x4 and suspend it for hammering (as y'all did in previous posts).  I believe I sunk the bolts in too deep and they've actually threaded through the plate back into the housing.  At this point I've simply bolted the housing to the 2x4 and no amount of hammering is going to release the plate (until that fateful point where I strip out the threads in the housing).  I'll try it with smaller bolts. 

What's the approximate thickness of the plate... ~0.5inches?

Iron Rose Farms's picture
Iron Rose Farms

We managed to get the transmission open using a couple long  (8 inch) 1/4 inch bolts with a couple heavy sockets (deep well sockets) and a couple washers to use as two slide hammers. This worked like a dream! We was able to take the large set of gears out then the smaller set that the speed selector fork rides into. Retrieved the keyway and reassembled spending adequate time to inspect everything carefully. (More good news, gears and other parts was perfect). Re installed and fully lubed up closed up and reassembled it was time to find the initial issue of no power. I had done continuity tests on the switch, and timer and both I thought was good. Friend helped test the capacitor and checked motor and windings finding them to be fine. He then did a voltage check on the timer with it being fine but when he checked the switch it was only allowing 4.8 volts through instead of the 110 volts required. So I am in search of a new switch. So far I can not locate an original style switch and am purchasing a heavy duty 120Volt rated toggle switch that with a couple washers can be mounted in the original hole but not quite look the same. Regardless the mixer is back in use and has turned out some great bread products again...Thanks to all the help of each of you! 

flormont's picture
flormont

Hello everyone,

I missed the action because I'm coming here too late ...

... but just few words in order to confirm that the most safe and efficient way to remove the C100 transmission mechanism is to use a puller exactly as described by BetsyMePoocho. According to service manual Hobart devoted a special tool referenced #14202 to do this job. However this tool looks like the multi-purpose puller pictured above fitted with the rights extraction bolts.

Here are the instructions given by the service manual :
"A special pulling device must be used to remove the bottom cover [...] Screw the hook and screw into the holes in sides where #10-24 x 1 1/2" screws were removed from. Turn them both in the same amount and connect them to the puller. Turn down the screws against the planetary shaft and extert pressure on the shaft.
When pressure is exerted on the shaft, the front of the bottom cover will raise but the rear of cover will remain in its original position. This is because the puller is in an eccentric position. To raise the entire cover, tap the front edge with a plastic hammer while turning down screw, and the cover will raise evenly [...]".

Regards.

CarolineR's picture
CarolineR

Flormont,  Would you please message me?  It sounds as if you have a service manual - if that's so, please let me know how to get a copy!  Thanks  - Caroline

 

 

CarolineR's picture
CarolineR

Central Mass Powder Coating just called to let us know the mixer shell is done. 

Here's what the parts looked like as we picked them up:

We chose a darker color and a crinkle finish compared to what they used in the factory, for the simple reason that the welds were coarsely finished, and this is (we think) somewhat thinner than the factory paint. 

Cost: $500.  There was a ton of masking involved, and we were explicit about what we wanted done with every little screw hole.  They did a fabulous job. 

The other objects in this photo are parts of our CL grain mill, which we had blasted and powder coated at the same time (we bought a used mill; its original paint was flaking off, into the grain hopper).

 

 

flormont's picture
flormont

Well done Caroline, now it's time to put your C100's parts together, best rewarding step of the whole refurbishing process ;-)

 

CarolineR's picture
CarolineR

Thanks for your assistance! We really feel as if this mixer rehab is an example of "it takes a village to..." <fill in the blank>.  We've received SO much help from Freshloaf posters, couldn't have gotten this far without you all.

Most rewarding: It's a tossup between having it purr after it’s assembled, or savoring the first loaf of bread that it kneads.  

Photos (and maybe short video clip, if it really does purr) will probably end up at least linked, if not outright posted, on Freshloaf.   Originally, I had thought we'd be done by early May, but we didn't get the mixer back till May 1st.  So now we expect to be done rebuilding by late May or June, with the writeup ready sometime this summer.

Cambridge66's picture
Cambridge66

I am rebuilding a c-100 and can not for the life of me figure out how to finagle the gear shift assembly back together. please help - there must be a trick....