Hello, I'm new....and confused
I am new today to this forum and very new to bread baking. I've been baking bread in my breadmaker only, but just recently (about one month ago) started getting into sour dough because my husband loves it. I would like to make a loaf like in these pictures but am having trouble with all the terms. Is there a definitions post somewhere? I know the word starter, but then there are seed starters and mother starters, and ?other starters? What is a sponge, a poolish, and a biga? I've been looking at different books and some call items one thing and the other ones something else. So far I have managed to make two bricks, with one competing with our frisbee out in the yard. I have a starter sitting in the fridge that has been in there not quite two weeks. It seems to be stable and I am currently making a sourdough from Peter Reinhart's Artisan Breads Every Day. I pulled some starter from the Mother to make the starter for the dough. I mixed it with part bread flour and part whole wheat. It is currently in the fridge waiting for day 3.
Any thoughts from anyone. So glad to be here with y'all.
I have a thought:
did the starter that you just mixed up get some warm time to rise and ripen? It needs to grow before you can use it in a bread recipe.
If you look at the top of the page, Click on FAQs and check out the glossary. And yes, many authors have a set of their own terms. Kudos for having a starter already! Let the fun begin!
Mini
Please do not be intimidated by the baking terms. Even I'm not quite sure which each of those terms means, but I can explain a little bit about the concept involved. The three terms you highlighted -- biga, sponge, and poolish -- are considered to be three kinds of pre-ferments. Traditionally, when you mix your bread ingredients, you automatically start a countdown: how long is it going to take for the bread to rise, and ultimately be ready to bake? Behind the scenes of that question, though, other things are taking place, like fermentation of the dough. One of the main goals of fermentation is to make the mixed flour-water paste tasty and edible. In general there is a rule of thumb in baking, and that is the longer the bread takes to rise, the tastier and better the outcome is. Unfortunately, most bakers do not have the time or convenience to carefully tend to a dough that takes all day and night to rise, so pre-ferments come into play.
Think of a pre-ferment just as you do a sourdough starter: before the main dough is mixed (that is, even before the main fermentation happens), a smaller portion of the total flour and water are pre-mixed with some of the overall yeast amount. This "pre-fermentation" will usually occur anywhere from two to twenty-four hours before the main dough is mixed. The pre-ferment is started the exact number of hours it takes to rise so that once it is done it can be incorporated into the main dough. This method of fermenting dough is called the indirect method; to proceed "directly" would mean to mix the ingredients, let them rise, and then divide, shape and bake.
The benefits of pre-ferments? Shorter mixing and fermentation times, increased dough-strength, and tastier, longer-lasting bread. Biga, sponge, and poolish are all terms that refer to different pre-ferments, with the difference usually being the amount of water, starting from very stiff (biga) to moderate (sponge) to almost batter-like (poolish), with each having its own pros and cons. In general, though, one can achieve similar, and almost always better, results, through the use of natural starter and commercial yeast.
As for your starter, may I recommend taking it out of the refrigerator and always keeping it at room temperature?
I hope this could be of help!
for about 8 hours. My timing is terrible. I work 8 hours a day so I started my "new" sponge at 6 in the evening, thus I had to wake up at 2am to look at. I panicked at first because it had tripled in my bowl, but I could not start making the final dough at 2am so I put it in the fridge. The book said I could leave it in there up to 3 days to "cold ferment". I'm wondering if I have a lively sponge. I was not expecting it to triple in size.
I appreciate any of your advice. I hope to get past the "baking brick" stage soon. There are so many good things on this forum. Thank you.
The nice thing about bread is that it is very flexible, regardless of a day's schedules, intervening children or whatever hiccups might be thrown one's way. This ability to adapt to any schedule is not often figured out easily because, for most people, there are simply too many variables that eventually affect the outcome. Experienced bakers overcome this obstacle by setting a baseline, by removing the uncontrolled variables they have some handle over to the "controlled" column. The more in the baker's hands, the less in Murphy's. The trouble is, most knowledge that has been accumulated throughout bread's history has been passed down because it works, not because it is the most optimal or desirable method available. This is not to say that gained wisdom isn't true, because a surprising amount remains the best way of doing things, even today. Both home- and professional-bakers have much to learn from the industrial-sector of bread, as well as from the science.
Today, as a baker, it is not enough to put method before materials, let alone putting either before personal needs. The real question we all should be asking ourselves is, what sort of bread do we want to be making? The answer could deal with its appearance, or with a bread that fits in with our schedule. Answering that question first then allows an astute baker to begin to work backwards from the answer, fitting the pieces together that allow them to arrive at their determined outcome. Of course, one of the biggest hurdles to overcome is that of knowledge, and in the sense we are talking about, this means not only the specialised technical knowledge but also the hands-on, experiential knowledge as well. E.g., there are random days that I might have hand-formed more breads of a small, specialised shape than most forum members will have shaped in any form in their entire lives. In this sense, repetition matters, and thankfully it seems the learning-curve is only specific to time put in, not to an individual. This means anybody and their dog can do it.
Another consideration: for 99% of bread's history the knowledge passed down certainly pertained to one, sometimes maybe two, grains, and only for a couple of ways to process that grain. It is a lot easier to obtain mastery of one thing over a lifetime than many, and this is the problem we face now: the world is much bigger with a lot more things in it, and most of that is only in the last 1% of bread's timeline. Bakeries, bakers, bread books: they all face a difficult challenge, and that is trying to cover as many materials and methods as possible. This is why most North American craft bakeries feature a French dough, an Italian dough, a vaguely Northern European dough (a rye of some kind), and so on. Bread books follow a similar trend, with as many niche paths ventured down as possible. The problem is, there isn't just one French dough; there are as many variations as there are "French" doughs being made. The very nature of editing involves exclusion, and there is a lot of information not available to the home or professional baker.
Thinking in terms of categories like this ("poolish" or "biga") isn't helpful; too framed a viewpoint only allows you to trot down one bread path, and not necessarily the best one for you. Moreover, most mainstream bread books are more concerned with this framework: page 2 has the formula for X ciabatta, page 3 the formula for Y baguette, and so on, as there is one formula and it works for all bakers. But we know the reality. Your home oven is vastly different to mine; your schedule is not likely the author's; how can you change it fit your schedule, or maybe make a modification so it might be naturally sweeter with a thicker crust? How do you do that? Well, as it turns out, these things are not hard. In planning bread, though, you start at the outcome, and work backwards from there based on materials, limitations, and so on.
So, I begin with the question I have originally put to you: what sort of bread do you want to be making?
a round whole wheat loaf of sourdough that has a good tangy flavor. That is my goal at the moment. When I started baking with home milled whole wheat flour.....I first made bricks, must as I am doing now with sourdough. I am sure I will eventually learn the technique. There is just so much to learn and I have felt a little overwhelmed with all the information. I appreciate your words, and am starting to see what you are saying.
Okay, well, let's start off simple! First, let me commend you by saying that very few people like whole wheat loaves, and even less are dedicated to home-milling. The second thing I would put to you is a riddle. What's the difference between a good baker and a great baker? A digital scale and an accurate thermometer.
Lesson #1 for you: You are a home-miller.
This means more than just grinding your flour. A proper miller also knows their product. As a miller, your chief concern is your flour's make-up and how it behaves as a dough. Just knowing what kind of what you are using and where it comes from and then noting the similar values of commercially-milled versions of your wheat, maybe a local stone-ground operation that has a whole-wheat flour available. Using their spec sheets will help you remember the relevant numbers. Also, their are certain tests millers perform on their grains, and many are easily duplicable at home. When you have a digital scale and an accurate thermometer.
Do not worry just yet about knowing all of this stuff yet, but you should begin to see yourself in this role. You are now a micro-miller. So, other than knowing your product, caring for your product is your other utmost concern. For instance, millers like to control the moisture content of their flour. Too much or too little water and you might as well not bake with it. So, they handle and store the grain and flour a certain way. Other concerns: the oxidation of the wheat's fats, which fresh whole wheat is abundant in. Thankfully, these are easily addressed at home. In this case, Google and some of your own legwork might be handy.
Lesson #2 for you: You are now a home-brewer and -pickler.
Welcome to the millennia-old tradition of sourdough! You, also as your own miller, have already been provided with your medium: wheat. The miller has also provided the specs on the wheat. Now, as the specialist in the alcholic and also acetic- and lactic-acid fermentation of your medium, you should know a bit about your culturing agents, yeasts and lactic-acid bacteria. The first is a fungus, the second a bacteria. There are thousands of varieties of both categories to choose from, understanding that depending upon which you choose, there will be different outcomes. And, yes, you have choice. A lot of choice. Wine-makers literally choose, often buying online from a European website, what cultures they want to add to their medium. Beer-makers do the same, and both use commonly-available software that enables them to predict almost exactly when it will be done, what it will taste like and even the colour. Pickling-industries likewise have similar technology and understanding of their medium and fermentation. There is even a lot of technical information about your medium. Maybe there are people here who can help you with that. Your next goal is to understand the fermentation of your medium. This is where outside knowledge, like this forum or specialist books, can help distill the finer points, but the hard yards must be done by you. The more you ferment, even badly, the more you'll know for next time. The two main lessons to learn here are, how to optimally care for and ultimately keep the culture you have selected, and then how to use that culture to ultimately ferment your medium in a way you find desirable.
Lesson #3 for you: You are now a home-baker.
The fermentation is done, thanks to you, your own brewer and pickler. The base product is ready, all its flavour potential there, but none of it means a thing until you, the home-baker, are done with it. Baking matters most to how the flavours developed during fermentation are expressed, both in terms of which types of flavour compounds but also how loudly or quietly. As the home-baker, you should have a baking-stone (I recommend buying two of the same kind, especially if on sale, and stacking them one on top the other for greater retained thermal mass without having to pay for the more expensive three-inch thick kind) and a cast-iron or ceramic pot. You should also have an oven. Round, crusty hearth loaves go into the pre-heated pot, and longish or flattish shapes onto the baking stone. If using the baking stone, extra steam will be needed. Get in the habit of pre-heating your oven for at least 1-hour before every bake, but ideally two.
Most important to know is that every oven bakes differently, period, and that whatever temperature your thermostat is reading is wrong (in most cases with home ovens, much to low, especially since it calculates only dry-bulb temperature). Every burnt or underbaked loaf is a lesson about your oven, home-baker, so pay attention. What's more, home-baker, you should never be static during the bake until you know your oven's tics inside and out. Do not be afraid to turn the oven temperature up or down 100-degrees Celsius if you feel it necessary. Part of being a good baker is manipulating your oven to offset for the way it works. Because it most certainly does not work perfectly, you must work in spite of it. So, trust your gut, and remember to never trust a single oven. Ever. It is merely your instrument, so do not be afraid to play it throughout the bake.
Lastly, I wish you the best of luck in your learning and enjoyment of each stage of the bread-making process. Have fun!
I appreciate the reply. I have been milling for about a year and a half. I have hard red winter wheat grain and white wheat grain that comes from the Kansas/Nebraska area. Since the wheat's fat can oxidize like you stated, I immediately freeze the milled flour and use it up in less than 30 days. So far that has been working great. I can turn out a wonderful sandwhich loaf in my bread machine in two different sizes. I do have to add some gluten in with the whole wheat, especially the red, to get a better rise. We also harvest honey on our farm and I use that in the breads. I have not eaten store bought sandwhich bread since I started baking our own loafs....nor do I want to. I have printed out your reply because it was so well said and I want to refer back to it. I think my husband has purchased a scale for me for Christmas. I do have a digital thermometer. My next objective is to get a baking stone for the oven. I can't wait.
Yes, the book stated to let sit from 6-8 hours at room temperature. Of course I had to get up at 2am to look at it. :) It had tripled in the bowel, so I just put it in the fridge. They say to let it ferment cold in the fridge. How do you know when it has fermented enough?
I hope you meant bowl!
Yes, there are lots of new terms. You might want to glance through the handbook (there's a link at the top of the page). Here is a link to the handbook page that addresses the definition for preferments (poolish, biga, etc.). Once you become familiar with the terms used, things will make a lot more sense.
-Brad
Thank you so much. I didn't even notice the heading titles. Duh..... Maybe I should read first, ask later. Ha. Well, either way, I can't wait to get home and look at my "sponge" in the frig. Does the thing grow while in the fridge, or only when at room temperature?
yes, it will grow in the fridge, but significantly more slowly than at room temperature.
Welcome to TFL, casedata!
You said your sourdough came out like a brick. Usually for beginning sourdough bread bakers this is a leavening problem. The first thing I'd ask is about your starter (or levain, or sourdough starter, or seed starter, or whatever you want to call it).
Tell us if your starter...
If it doesn't meet the the above criteria, you're not likely to get good leavening from your starter and end up with bricks.
It's not a great idea to store a young starter (less than 14 days old) in the fridge. Even for well-established (old) starters, it takes at least several days of regular feeding and room-temp storage for them to reach the proper activity level.
No, No, No, and No. So a brick it was.
My new one I have done this. I fed the mother with 1/2 cup whole wheat flour and 1/4 cup non chlorine water. Let it sit at room temperature overnight and it tripled by the next morning. I took 1/3 - 1/2 cup out for the starter dough for my new loaf and put mother back into the fridge. To the new starter or preferment I'm told, I added 1 cup white bread flour, 1/4 cup whole wheat flour, 1/4 cup water. I neaded it for 30 seconds, made it into a ball, and placed it in a lightly oiled bowl and covered it with plastic wrap. This was at 6pm in the evening. At 2am I got up and looked at it. It had tripled in the bowl, so I put it in the fridge. The book Peter Reinhart's Artisan Breads Every Day states I can leave it like this for up to 3 days. It is about 4:10pm and I am wondering if I leave it in the fridge, take it out, feed it, or just wait for day three.
The mother sounds acquired or is already an aged starter, right? It's been fed well and rose well. Ready? Let's make a brick! :)
One interesting thing about sourdoughs when compared to commercial yeast doughs is that they need a little more attention than waiting until the end of the bulk rise to play with the dough. As soon as the dough finally starts to rise, it needs a few folds and then is allowed to rise some more. It's more like one continuous rise with lots of interruptions; more if a wet dough, less if a firm one. Sourdough tends to relax more as the dough ferments and loose its shape and so the stretch and folding of the dough returns its shape and helps prevent bricks. More can be found under "Stretch and Fold" technique.
Mini
Thanks Mini, that made me smile and LOL :)