The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Questions About Bread Rising

Hopeful's picture
Hopeful

Questions About Bread Rising

I'm new to bread baking and have baked 3 types of bread that have turned out well in taste and texture.

 

My big concern is that my dough rises fast and more than quadruples it's size in the first rise. Punched down, it doubles to triples in 2nd rise. I get a slight third rise prior to putting in oven without much oven spring.

 

Is the loss of 3rd rise and oven spring loss amount due to the initial increases of dough rising? Has the dough just exhausted itself in the 1st and 2nd rises?

 

 

 

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Sounds like it.  

I would cut back on the yeast to try to slow it down a bit.  You also could skip the second rise if your initial rise is that intense... I bet the one long rise would be plenty.

Best,

-Floyd

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

you answered your own Question!  Welcome to TFL!   

Might want to shorten the bulk rise to just double or cut back on the amount of yeast if the dough is rising too fast for you.  :)

Hopeful's picture
Hopeful

Thank you Floyd and Mini for your responses and assistance. I will follow your recommendations to find which works best.

 

 

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

that ou are using commercial yeast.  Haven't seen many recipes that calls for 3 rises though.  I would  try going for a first rise that doubles and then go for a 85% rise on the 2 nd rise and then bake it off with no 3rd rise.

Hopeful's picture
Hopeful

Yes, it is commercial yeast. I've tried ADY, IDY and Rapid Rise. All have had the same affect. The last bread I made, from the lessons forum of basic white bread, had a 3rd rise prior to baking.  The no-knead ciabatta had 2 rises, the first rise reached the top of mixing bowl before 9 hours passed despite it was to be a 12-18 hour rising time. The 2nd rise on oven pan was almost non-existant, there wasn't any measurable oven spring. The texture, holes, crust and taste were very good compared to the store bought specialty bakery bread ciabatta. The yeast for the ciabatta was 1/4 teaspoon.

Whether a baking pan is pre-heated or not doesn't seem to make a difference with the rising once dough is on pan, parchment or in oven.

I'm guessing that instead of going by the time length of rise, I should be going by the height of the rise. Somehow I've been stuck with not getting the last rise or the oven spring that could be expected. The only possible reason I could think of is the initial rising/risings depletes the dough's  energy.

The only exception to the above is a KAF deep dish pizza recipe. Even though it did rise more than expected, there was a pan rise prior to baking and also a very significant oven spring.

 

Next bread bake, I will focus on dough amount rise and not the rising time which, I believe, is what you have suggested. I'm pretty much looking at bread baking as being experimental until I have some significant bread baking experience going for me. I have no intentions of giving up. :)

 

Thank you for your advice and help.

 

Joe Fisher's picture
Joe Fisher

At what temperature are you proofing the dough? Even with just 1/4 tsp. of yeast, you'll probably want a pretty cool temp for 12-14 hour rise.

-Joe

Hopeful's picture
Hopeful

Hi Joe, Room temp approx 71 F. Bowl was placed on dishtowel, to counteract cold radiating from counter, wrapped with dishtowel and covered lightly with plastic wrap and a dishtowel partially over it. A ceiling heat vent blows directly on kitchen counters and stove so I felt a need to keep dough out of the draft it creates.

The plastic bowl I use, for rise, holds a liquid volume of 1 quart 3 cups. In less than 9 hours the dough, for the ciabatta, was approximately 1/2 inch from the top. It is the same height that every dough has risen.

Too warm? Maybe cut back on rise time and/or use dough height as indication of stopping the rise?

 

Joe Fisher's picture
Joe Fisher

That does seem a bit warm for that long a rise, yes. Using dough size is definitely the way to go, though. You have to follow the yeast's schedule, and watching how the dough behaves is the only way to do that.

Note I said dough size and not height.  You want a doubling in volume. That's why dough rising buckets like this one have fairly straight sides--it's much easier to judge in a straight-sided container, because now if the height doubles, the volume doubles.

-Joe

Hopeful's picture
Hopeful

I fully understand what you mean, Joe. Thank you. Nice dough rising bucket you have linked to. It will be added to the "need to buy" list of items for bread baking which seems to lenghten with the more I learn.

 

I will be bread baking in the next day or two and, for now, I will have to "eye-ball" the volume. Possibly I could also mark off my bowl with volume indicators based on liquid volume.

 

I sincerely appreciate all the help and advice received. This is a very nice and informative forum which, despite weeks worth of reading, I have not yet put a dent into the information stored here. Thank you all so very much.