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Transcript of November 2012 #BreadChat (on Twitter)‎

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Transcript of November 2012 #BreadChat (on Twitter)‎

Earlier today Chicago Amateur Bread Bakers hosted the November 2012 #BreadChat on Twitter. Now in its tenth month, #BreadChat is a Twitter discussion hour for bakers of yeasted, artisanal breads.

During #BreadChat, @AmateurBakers led the discussion through a handful of questions related to yeasted bread baking. During the November #BreadChat, we discussed pre-ferments, for example, sponge, poolish, biga, and levain. We began with the following questions:

Q1: Let's start by defining the pre-ferments: poolish, biga, sponge, levain. Temperature, %hydration, fermentation time for each? #BreadChat
Q2: What factors drive the choice of one pre-ferment over another? Flavor profile contributed to bread? Extensibility of dough? #BreadChat
Q3: Which pre-ferment is traditionally used with which bread? Why? E.g., biga in pizza, poolish in baguette, sponge in panettone #BreadChat

 

We were delighted to welcome back Eric Duhamel (@EricFrenchBaker), Master Baker at Daylesford Organic, as co-host.

Below is the transcript of the chat. Please read from bottom to top, Twitter-style.

 

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ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @Edesiaskitchen Happy you could join us today for #BreadChathttp://www.amateurbakers.org/p/breadchat.html …

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @cannyfradock Experienced that, too. Easier to maintain a culture that's used regularly. Be sure to mark tweets w/ #BreadChat so we hear you

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @nancybaggett Yes, there's an endless amount to learn about bread baking, perfect for curious bakers. Happy to have you with us #BreadChat

 

 

Eduardo Peirano ‏@risedough Thanks to @AmateurBakers @ericfrenchbaker @floursaltwater@flour_and_yeast @MortalGreenWhim #breadchat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @culinaryscience@flour_and_yeast @tiaingle @hrunar @Pricesthebakers @stirthepots À bientôt! #breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @floursaltwater @culinaryscience@flour_and_yeast @tiaingle @hrunar @Pricesthebakers @stirthepots Bye for now. #Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers Shortly we'll post the next #BreadChat date/time, as well as a link to today's transcript at http://www.amateurbakers.org/p/breadchat.html …

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @floursaltwater @culinaryscience @flour_and_yeast @tiaingle@hrunar @Pricesthebakers @stirthepots So happy you could join#BreadChat today!

 

 

Eduardo Peirano ‏@risedough @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim Dough Tests http://www.wheatflourbook.org/p.aspx?tabid=21  #breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater @AmateurBakers It was a pleasure to participate.#Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim @harbourhussy @thebreadlist @ShakeySemple@turanobaking Great questions & contributions today on#BreadChat. Thanks!

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @realArtisan @ArtisanF @risedough @thebreadlist @harbourhussy@Miquel_Saborit @jbell54 Thanks for chatting with us today on#BreadChat!

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @EricFrenchBaker @risedough @AmateurBakers@MortalGreenWhim They are uncommon in anglo-saxon bakery but are really important. #Breadchat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker Thank you very much! Always a pleasure to discuss bread with fellow bakers! #breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers And thank you to the many bread bakers who participated and listened in to today's #BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers A big thank you to our co-host, Master Baker @EricFrenchBaker#BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers That's a wrap for #BreadChat.

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @risedough @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim@EricFrenchBaker The extensograph or alveograph are missing in here. #Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @risedough Sometimes, even with the tag, Twitter doesn't work properly... :-( #Breadchat

 

 

Eduardo Peirano ‏@risedough @AmateurBakers I am sorry I forgot to add the #breadchat tag

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers Oops, sorry. Wheat and Milling Tests referencehttp://www.wheatflourbook.org/p.aspx?tabid=64  came from @risedough#BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @risedough Be sure to mark each of your tweet with #BreadChat, so everyone can hear you.

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @floursaltwater @amateurbakers @ericfrenchbaker Great to dig a bit deeper though. :)#Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers RT @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim @EricFrenchBaker Wheat and Milling Tests http://www.wheatflourbook.org/p.aspx?tabid=64  #BreadChat

 

 

Eduardo Peirano ‏@risedough @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim @EricFrenchBaker Wheat and Milling Tests http://www.wheatflourbook.org/p.aspx?tabid=64  #breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers #BreadChat will be wrapping up shortly. If you've been listening in, please say hello!

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim But if you dig a bit, it's common to have this kind of consideration. #Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim Ona daily life, maybe not... #Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker @MortalGreenWhim Thank you for the references, Eric! #BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim Thank you, Sonya! Wonderful to have you with us again for #BreadChat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim Otherwise, some websites like http://www.campden.co.uk  and others... #Breadchat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @AmateurBakers @ericfrenchbaker will look for a link - recent broadcast on BBC featured lab. Thank you so much for #BreadchatGoodnight

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim If you speak French, I'd recommend the INBP web site : http://www.cannelle.com . #Breadchat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim @EricFrenchBaker Don't think those things are actually important on the daily life of a baker. :)#breadchat

 

 

Simon Thomas ‏@realArtisan @AmateurBakers It was good to be available to chat with you guys for once! First time I have been at home for #BreadChat hour.

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @realArtisan Nice to have you with us on today's #BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim @EricFrenchBaker Where can we learn more about flour/yeast labs/equipment? Any references would interest us. #BreadChat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @realArtisan Have a good night. Cheers ! #Breadchat

 

 

Simon Thomas ‏@realArtisan @AmateurBakers and everyone.Must go now as up at 5.Damson-powered sourdough Rye with linseeds is rising slowly right now!#BreadChat G'night!

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @MortalGreenWhim @AmateurBakers @floursaltwater@flour_and_yeast Some can also do leaven analysis. Everything's possible ! #Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @MortalGreenWhim @AmateurBakers @floursaltwater@flour_and_yeast Some labs are specialised in flours analysis.#Breadchat

 

 

Miquel Saborit Vilà ‏@Miquel_Saborit Sponge is a fermented, normal paste used in brioche, panettone, part of the ingredients of the final recipe, fat sugar free salt#breadchat.

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @AmateurBakers @ericfrenchbaker @floursaltwater@flour_and_yeast although there are some cool sourdough and yeast analysers #Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @hrunar Indeed, flashy colours are usually bad signs. :-) #Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @flour_and_yeast Thanks for chatting with us #BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker @MortalGreenWhim @floursaltwater@flour_and_yeast Do you have a lab where you can send samples for analysis? #BreadChat

 

 

Simon ‏@flour_and_yeast @EricFrenchBaker @MortalGreenWhim @floursaltwater@AmateurBakers there's a lot I should learn. Night all #breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @MortalGreenWhim @floursaltwater @flour_and_yeast@AmateurBakers Talking about analysis, falling number is only the beginning...#Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @hrunar Warning: if you see any wild colors: black, green, orange indicates undesirable mold/bacteria. Throw away and start over.#BreadChat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater Other pre-ferment that is making the pages on the interwebs is "yeast water". Fruit or flowers + water, let steep for some days.#breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @hrunar Chop petals finely, that helps. In few days, you should see bubbles in jar (fermentation). Add flower water+bread flour#BreadChat

 

 

Simon Thomas ‏@realArtisan @hrunar Should start to ferment in 2or 3 days.Feed Org.white flour and water over 3 or 4 days more and then make first dough.#BreadChat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @floursaltwater @flour_and_yeast @amateurbakers Ah yes! Have a very good miller, phew.#Breadchat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @flour_and_yeast @floursaltwater @amateurbakers Goggles! And Google!#Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater Already, the pre-fermentation is quite a geeky subject as it is simple and very complex at the same time.#Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @hrunar Welcome! In clean/sterilized jar, add elderflowers+water. Cover loosely. Set away from draft at room temp. #BreadChat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @MortalGreenWhim @flour_and_yeast @amateurbakers Or you get a good miller that fixes that part with falling numbers for you ;)#breadchat

 

 

Simon Thomas ‏@realArtisan @hrunar Hi. It's simple.1 cup elderflower petals 1x5ml spoon malt syrup dissolved in half cup warm water. Put in jar covered#BreadChat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @flour_and_yeast @floursaltwater @amateurbakers Need a bread lab and lots of new high tech equipment, and googles #Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater @AmateurBakers That's it, if the malt is active. Otherwise, it brings only "fast" sugars. #Breadchat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater A thing we didn't discuss: what's a sponge?! Another term for poolish? A part of the final dough that's autolysed? No clue#breadchat.

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater Let's forget the falling test, maybe we're getting too geeky :)#breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @realArtisan @floursaltwater @AmateurBakers It's the Hagberg's falling test.#Breadchat

 

 

Simon ‏@flour_and_yeast @MortalGreenWhim @floursaltwater @amateurbakers #breadchatyes I've lost this thread completely lol

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers Is that why some do use malted wheat or barley? Faster fermentation and maybe better colour? #breadchat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @floursaltwater @amateurbakers Wow! Will be spending the rest of the week reading text books & not baking just to keep up#Breadchat

 

 

Miquel Saborit Vilà ‏@Miquel_Saborit I use natural type biga ferment with fermentations at high T in short periods and followed and with sugar bath, for Panettone#breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @floursaltwater Falling number is influenced by amylases activity. #Breadchat

 

 

Simon Thomas ‏@realArtisan @floursaltwater @amateurbakers Oh Dear! I'm so not a technician. I had no idea there was a test for it! #BreadChat

 

 

Runar Svendsen ‏@hrunar @realArtisan Hi from Asker, Norway! How do you make starter from elderflowers? Or syrup? @floursaltwater #Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater @AmateurBakers Yes and no. High diastasic activity will speed up the fermentation but not always loosen the dough.#Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @floursaltwater Så klart! We can believe it. #BreadChat.

 

 

ImLeeBro ‏@cookies_r_hench #BreadChat got any dough to buy a pizza

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @floursaltwater What factors contribute to falling numbers? Something to do with age of flour, or %gluten? #BreadChat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @AmateurBakers Trivia of the day: It was actually a Swede that invented the falling number test! #breadchat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @AmateurBakers Resulting bread is usually very gummy and hopeless… #breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater It can help but ... not always. This is a very tricky question. A low falling number would increase the time. #Breadchat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @AmateurBakers High amylase activity, starches are converted too rapidly into sugars and bread looses structure. #breadchat

 

 

Turano Baking Co. ‏@turanobaking We're heading out — thanks for all the awesome and informative Q&A's. @floursaltwater @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers#BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @floursaltwater What are "falling numbers" in flour? #BreadChat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater You can usually change a pre-fermentation but you will change the effects in the recipe.#Breadchat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater I'll just throw in a question regarding falling numbers in flour. Can low falling number be helped with pre-ferment? #breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater Indeed ! Also, bacteria have more proteolytic activity than yeasts which changes the effects of the fermentation.#Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @tiaingle @AmateurBakers Gud'day !! #Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers The official #BreadChat hour is up, but we'll continue on for another 20 minutes or so. Join us!

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers No worries ! #Breadchat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @EricFrenchBaker Yes yes, once again.. so many variables! :)#Breadchat.

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater In fact, it's not only about acidity but also about enzymatic activity. #Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @jbell54 Nice chatting with you today on #BreadChat

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle @EricFrenchBaker @amateurbakers #BreadChat please do! Thank you for brilliant bread chat today D'Day for now down under out ;)

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @tiaingle Thanks for being with us on today's #BreadChat

 

 

Janice Bell ‏@jbell54 @AmateurBakers #breadchat signing off now. Lots of food for thought!

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker As you joined us a bit late today, would you like to stay on and chat until 9:20pm UK time? #BreadChat

 

 

Simon Thomas ‏@realArtisan @AmateurBakers Do you have Elderflowers over there? They will give you a very mild flavoured wild starter but very active.#BreadChat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers I could advice what I've done for croissants in Auz : liquid leaven fermented at high temperature. #Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers Official #BreadChat questions have been asked, time to open the floor for other questions on topic of pre-ferments.

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle #BreadChat have to sign off now need to get kids ready for school catch up rest on transcript hopefully. Great stuff!

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers Acidity has been known to strengthen gluten strands, I guess. #breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @floursaltwater Sometimes, you can get the opposite effect actually ! #Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @floursaltwater In fact, all the pre-ferment can bring extensibility. But, this depends on the way you use them.#Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker Have you advice on developing a sweet wild yeast culture to use in, e.g., panettone? Tried many times & failed#BreadChat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @AmateurBakers Maybe, I'm no expert in the matter and sometimes I do confuse both :D #Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @floursaltwater Biga for elasticity, how dough stretches+snaps back Poolish for extensibility, how far dough stretches b4 tearing#BreadChat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @tiaingle @floursaltwater @AmateurBakers It depends on the effects you want and your constraints as well. #Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater @AmateurBakers Talking about prefermentation is endless ! It's so various... #Breadchat

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle @EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater @amateurbakers #BreadChat is that with different types of flours or hydrations or what?

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers I do believe it comes to that and as you long as you get the kind of bread you want. #breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater @AmateurBakers It was for technical purpose...#Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater @AmateurBakers When I was in gastronomic restaurant, I was using 2 preferments as well. #Breadchat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @EricFrenchBaker @stirthepots Exciting journey though #Breadchat

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle @floursaltwater @amateurbakers #BreadChat v interesting never tried it!

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @floursaltwater I like too sometimes. It's also a French habit ! ;-)#Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @Pricesthebakers Welcome to #BreadChat. We're on question 3: http://www.amateurbakers.org/p/breadchat.html …

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @AmateurBakers Either that or each one will contribute different properties? Best of both worlds? Who knows. #Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater Hee, yes. We Americans like to show off :-) #BreadChat

 

 

Peter Cook ‏@Pricesthebakers Blimey. Just come in and found myself in the middle of#shropshirehour and #breadchat at the same time. #confusinghour

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @MortalGreenWhim @stirthepots Recent bread history in UK is based exclusively on yeast. The renewal's started but it's a long way.#Breadchat

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle @Miquel_Saborit #BreadChat nice crust and good holes

 

 

Simon Thomas ‏@realArtisan @realArtisan @ericfrenchbaker @stirthepots For barm bread you need some real ale which is not pasteurised or just the wort.#BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @floursaltwater Interesting question! #BreadChat Layering different flavor profiles, perhaps?

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater If it is the case, it's because of the balance, efficiency and to show off a bit as well... ;-) #Breadchat

 

 

Miquel Saborit Vilà ‏@Miquel_Saborit @tiaingle Ciabatta with Biga, baguettes with poolish... It depends on what you're looking for a bread... #breadchat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @EricFrenchBaker Yes, sorry for the typo. Too few characters avaiable in Twitter :) #Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater Firm levain + levain ?? What do you mean ? Stiff + liquid ? #Breadchat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @stirthepots @ericfrenchbaker this is why the English don't have sourdough in recent bread history! Couldn't stop using beer#Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @Miquel_Saborit Bacteria and yeast have their main fermentation ways which differs. So, this influences the effects. #Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @Miquel_Saborit This subject is very complex because extremely vast in diversity. #Breadchat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @realArtisan @ericfrenchbaker poolish good for beer bread too - seems to preserve the flavour of both the sourdough and beer#Breadchat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater Why is it so popular in the US to use several pre-ferments in a bread? US Team in Coupe du monde used Firm Levain + Levain #Breadchat

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle @Miquel_Saborit #BreadChat what sort of recipes do you use for each ?

 

 

Simon Thomas ‏@realArtisan @EricFrenchBaker @stirthepots Barm is just the traditional English word for yeast.Originally obtained from brewers ale barms.#BreadChat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker  @Miquel_Saborit In fact, pre-fermentations bring some comparable effects but plus or less on some aspects depending on their type.#Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @jbell54 @EricFrenchBaker Almost any bread w/ pre-ferment can be made without using straight dough. Some flavor may be sacrificed #BreadChat

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle #BreadChat potato water is good in preferment action

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater Of course @stirthepots! Thanks! But you can always adjust the hydration after the pre-ferment! #breadchat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @stirthepots @ericfrenchbaker it's great to use one dough for pâté fermentee and mix with a different flour dough the next day.#Breadchat

 

 

Simon ‏@flour_and_yeast @Miquel_Saborit #breadchat great thank you. Makes sense

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @stirthepots A "barm" is made including some ale in the recipe. #Breadchat

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle @AmateurBakers #BreadChat a wet poolish / sponge seems to be good for sourdough rye

 

 

Miquel Saborit Vilà ‏@Miquel_Saborit The Biga adds gluten strength and push it in the oven. The Poolish extensibility to gluten, thin crust and flavorful bread #breadchat

 

 

Janice Bell ‏@jbell54 @EricFrenchBaker #breadchat so do you always use a preferment?

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater Q3: Depends on the traditional recipe.You can use any pre-ferment you want in a given recipe as long as u get the result u wanted #breadchat

 

 

Simon Thomas ‏@realArtisan @AmateurBakers Sorry guys . Looks like I jumped ahead on the question. #BreadChat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker A yeasted pre-ferment will bring mainly yeasts and an alcoholic fermentation.#Breadchat

 

 

Jeremy Shapiro ‏@stirthepots @EricFrenchBaker What about barm? #breadchat

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle @AmateurBakers @flour_and_yeast #BreadChat the effect seems to be speedier fermentation

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker However, depending on the type, you will get different effects.#Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker For doing it simple, a prefermentation will act like a natural improver. #Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @floursaltwater It's very successful tonight but a bit difficult to follow... ;-) #Breadchat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @AmateurBakers I believe it's poolish, my readings say biga gives more strength to the dough. #Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater @flour_and_yeast A poolish and a leaven don't ferment the same way, so they have different effects. #Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers Q3: Which pre-ferment is traditionally used with which bread? Why? E.g., biga in pizza, poolish in baguette, sponge in panettone#BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers Let's move on to question 3. #BreadChat

 

 

Simon Thomas ‏@realArtisan @EricFrenchBaker Poolish does give the bread that freshness and the nutty smell. Worth using for flûtes and baguettes I feel.#BreadChat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @realArtisan @flour_and_yeast @floursaltwater That's why I prefer to refer to a natural leaven, like in French : "levain naturel".#Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @floursaltwater In your experience, which provides greater dough extensibility: poolish or biga? #BreadChat

 

 

Jeremy Shapiro ‏@stirthepots @MortalGreenWhim @EricFrenchBaker I incorporate grains into ferment overnight and finish with remaining flour.. #breadchat

 

 

Turano Baking Co. ‏@turanobaking RT @tiaingle @AmateurBakers Biga is the Italian word for a yeasted pre-fermentation. #Breadchat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @flour_and_yeast Don't think so, for instance with 100% hydration sourdough you do get different properties than with poolish.#breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @realArtisan @flour_and_yeast @floursaltwater In English, traditionnally, a sourdough should be spontaneous but not always.#Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @tiaingle @flour_and_yeast Wow, 40+C must put a strain on yeast fermentation, too. 27–32° C optimum range for yeast to grow#BreadChat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @stirthepots @ericfrenchbaker pâté fermentee can be dough mixed 12-16 hours (or so) before mixing with final dough #Breadchat

 

 

Simon ‏@flour_and_yeast @floursaltwater #breadchat. So the wetter the preferment the bigger the extensibility

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater Love working with poolish, love doing baguettes with poolish very fun to shape! #Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @tiaingle @AmateurBakers Biga is the Italian word for a yeasted pre-fermentation. #Breadchat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater More about pre-ferment affecting dough properties, I do believe poolish gives a bigger extensibility to the dough. #Breadchat

 

 

Simon Thomas ‏@realArtisan @flour_and_yeast @ericfrenchbaker @floursaltwater As far as we are concerned a sourdough should be wild yeast only.No levure. #BreadChat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @tiaingle @AmateurBakers Poolish is a French expression for a liquid yeasted pre-fermentation.#breadchat

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle @AmateurBakers @floursaltwater @ericfrenchbaker #BreadChatwas once told levain was also referred to as "Chef"

 

 

Simon ‏@flour_and_yeast @EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater #breadchat. So a sourdough

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater A "levain-levure" is a yeasted stiff pre-fermentation. #breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater A "pâte fermentée" is just a fermented dough, usually yeasted. #breadchat

 

 

Miquel Saborit Vilà ‏@Miquel_Saborit @floursaltwater #breadchat not sorry.

 

 

Jeremy Shapiro ‏@stirthepots @EricFrenchBaker What about old dough, from previous batch? #breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @floursaltwater A natural leaven is a spontaneous fermentation which is developed and sustained by refreshments. #breadchat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @AmateurBakers Lalos who wrote "Le Pain: L'envers du décor" says that pre-ferments contribute differently to dough properties. #breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @floursaltwater @EricFrenchBaker Pate fermentee is simply old dough. What is levain-levure? Haven't heard that term before#BreadChat

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle @AmateurBakers @flour_and_yeast #BreadChat are you sure? I think there is a big effect when the temperatures rack up to+40C here

 

 

Janice Bell ‏@jbell54 #breadchat @flour_and_yeast@amateurbakers@EricFrenchBaker are all these terms interchangeable depending on their origin?

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @tiaingle @flour_and_yeast @AmateurBakers Hydration influences as well the speed, and so the taste. #breadchat

 

 

Simon ‏@flour_and_yeast @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @floursaltwater #breadchat. Cool, so I'm mo interested in what difference it makes to end result the wetter

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @EricFrenchBaker What are the differences between a levain-levure and a pate fermentee? Salt? #breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers Q2: What factors drive the choice of one pre-ferment over another? Flavor profile contributed to bread? Extensibility of dough?#BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers Let's move on to question 2 #BreadChat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @flour_and_yeast @amateurbakers Probably right. I use a sourdough biga for ciabatta which is a similar to my sourdough levain #Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @tiaingle @flour_and_yeast @AmateurBakers The hydration influence the way of fermentation. #breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @tiaingle @flour_and_yeast Ambient humidity is a factor, for sure. But it's a small factor, on the order of 1-5%, usually #BreadChat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater Biga: "low hydration helps develop acidity, which helps when you're deling with weak local flours." from theFreshLoaf forums#breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @flour_and_yeast @AmateurBakers @floursaltwater Indeed, a biga seams to be a generic word in Italy for yeasted pre-fermentation#breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @flour_and_yeast Standards are few in bread baking, it seems. Bakers deal more in ranges, and accumulated experience#BreadChat

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle @flour_and_yeast @amateurbakers #BreadChat % would be depend at on the ambience of the environment one is working in don't you think?

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @tiaingle @AmateurBakers In France we can use a "yeasted leaven" (levain-levure), close to the biga, which is a stiff yeasted one.#BreadChat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @realArtisan Interesting. Maybe biga is just the word in italian for pre-ferment or "old dough". Any Italian there? #breadchat

 

 

Simon ‏@flour_and_yeast @AmateurBakers #breadchat, assume there is no standard then? As everyone seems to have a different view or %s

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers Poolish, biga, levain, we leave all of these for 12-16 hours at room temperature. #BreadChat

 

 

Simon Thomas ‏@realArtisan @floursaltwater Our Biga Acida starter for Pane Rustica is at least 100% hydrated. Tremendous flavour! #BreadChat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker @tiaingle @AmateurBakers A poolish is liquid (100 % hydration or more), a leaven can be stiff or liquid.#BreadChat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @realArtisan thanks will take a look. Trying not to feel guilty for ignoring the joys of cabbage #Breadchat

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle @EricFrenchBaker #BreadChat is there any importance in type of hydration medium?

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @Miquel_Saborit Are we discussing hydration in pre-ferments?#breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker is Twitter having problems where you are?#BreadChat

 

 

Miquel Saborit Vilà ‏@Miquel_Saborit @floursaltwater agree with you... But the % of water will vary according to the protein in the flour... #breadchat

 

 

Janice Bell ‏@jbell54 #breadchat I understood bigs to be a thickish dough thus less wet than poolish.

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker Biga, from what I've seen is a medium hydration.#BreadChat

 

 

Simon Thomas ‏@realArtisan @MortalGreenWhim The sauerkraut has a positive effect on the texture too. Choucroute Alsacienne is our favourite. #BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @flour_and_yeast @floursaltwater Good questions! Yes, these ideas coming up in question 2 , after covering some fundamentals :-) #BreadChat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @AmateurBakers @floursaltwater I do the same but have to account for seasonal temps by adjusting yeast or s/dough culture & time #Breadchat

 

 

Turano Baking Co. ‏@turanobaking @EricFrenchBaker Welcome! #BreadChat

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle @realArtisan @amateurbakers #BreadChat biga as I understand is Italian in origin an fairly wet

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker We're on question 1, will re-tweet it for you.#BreadChat

 

 

Simon ‏@flour_and_yeast @floursaltwater #breadchat sorry jumping ahead

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker Welcome to our co-host! #BreadChat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @flour_and_yeast IMHO they do cause different behaviours in the dough, extensibility, strenght, etc. but that's question 2 #breadchat

 

 

Turano Baking Co. ‏@turanobaking Good Question! MT @floursaltwater what diff. does each 1 make to the end result? #breadchat or is it simply different means to the same end?

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @floursaltwater We leave our pre-ferments at room temperature: poolish, biga, levain. #BreadChat

 

 

Simon ‏@flour_and_yeast @floursaltwater what difference does each one make to the end result? #breadchat or is it simply different means to the same end?

 

 

Turano Baking Co. ‏@turanobaking RT @AmateurBakers It's actually the other way around, poolish is wet (100% hydration), the biga firm (say 60% hydration)#BreadChat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @harbourhussy I tried courgettes and cheese a few times. Needed a whiskey to recover from dealing with so much alien slime :) #Breadchat

 

 

Eric Duhamel ‏@EricFrenchBaker Good evening, Sorry, I'm a bit late for #BreadChat... Appologies !

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle @AmateurBakers @culinaryscience #BreadChat what about sponge & levain?

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker seems to be having technical problems. We'll push on until he can join us :-) #BreadChat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater For me: Biga 40% Hydration, Levain (Firm SD): around 60% hydration, Poolish: 100% hydration #Breadchat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @realArtisan Sounds amazing. Could be tempted...#Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @culinaryscience @tiaingle It's actually the other way around, poolish is wet (100% hydration), the biga firm (say 60% hydration) #BreadChat

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater Some people (the french) can define levain as being a firm sourdough and levain chef as the "regular sourdough".@EricFrenchBaker #BreadChat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @AmateurBakers Definition could get a bit cheeky: wet, stiff, frothy, French! #Breadchat

 

 

David Mason ‏@culinaryscience @floursaltwater ah I stand corrected, my apologies #BreadChat

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle @culinaryscience @amateurbakers #BreadChat higher hydration r what?

 

 

Simon Thomas ‏@realArtisan @MortalGreenWhim We make a nice light rye with lots of caraway and Sauerkraut . #BreadChat

 

 

Lisa Brunton Stocks ‏@harbourhussy @MortalGreenWhim I certainly use many local beers,we have a whisky distillery 7 miles from us,I love onions,leeks,oats & barley#BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @realArtisan Welcome to #BreadChat!

 

 

David Mason ‏@culinaryscience @tiaingle @amateurbakers I believe a biga is more wet than a poolish #BreadChat

 

 

Simon Thomas ‏@realArtisan #BreadChat Good evening Breadfolks!

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle @AmateurBakers #BreadChat what is the difference between polish biga etc

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @harbourhuss Lots of onions and other local produce: beer, herbs, cheese, fruit. Not moved to make cabbage bread yet! #Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers Q1: Let's start by defining the pre-ferments: poolish, biga, sponge, levain. Temperature, %hydration, fermentation time for each?#BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @ArtisanF Welcome to #BreadChat!

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers Breadchatt-ers, let's get started with question 1 #BreadChat

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle #BreadChat G'Day everyone got kookaburras serenading for us out there this morning in the #Riverland

 

 

Artisan Foodworks ‏@ArtisanF @AmateurBakers #BreadChat Hello from Lancashire!

 

 

Lisa Brunton Stocks ‏@harbourhussy @MortalGreenWhim @amateurbakers hmmmm,not so sure!!!!!Lincolnshire has great veg,do you put any in your breads?#Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @risedough @thebreadlist @harbourhussy @Miquel_SaboritWelcome to #BreadChat!

 

 

Janice Bell ‏@jbell54 #breadchat forgot to say I'm in Worcestershire.

 

 

Miquel Saborit Vilà ‏@Miquel_Saborit Hello everyone!! #breadchat

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @harbourhussy @amateurbakers I'm inside don't worry. No mud in here #Breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @culinaryscience Welcome to #BreadChat!

 

 

Bruce Ezzell ‏@thebreadlist i'm here for once. #breadchat

 

 

Eduardo Peirano ‏@risedough Hi all, from Montevideo, Uruguay #breadchat

 

 

Lisa Brunton Stocks ‏@harbourhussy @MortalGreenWhim @amateurbakers not stood in muddy fields like Sonya!!!!Hello from the North East of Scotland,let the #Breadchatbegin!;-)

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @jbell54 @ShakeySemple @turanobaking @MortalGreenWhimWelcome to #BreadChat!

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater @AmateurBakers Söderbergs Bageri with Mattias Wallmark from the Swedish national baking team (4th on Coupe du Monde Boulangerie) #BreadChat

 

 

Janice Bell ‏@jbell54 #breadchat looking forward to an interesting hour.

 

 

David Mason ‏@culinaryscience I'm here #BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @floursaltwater Hejsan Paulo! Welcome to #BreadChat, happy you could join us. At which Stockholm bakery are you an apprentice?

 

 

Sonya Hundal ‏@MortalGreenWhim @AmateurBakers so happy to be breadchatting again #BreadchatI'm in muddy fields in Lincolnshire UK

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @flour_and_yeast Welcome to #BreadChat!

 

 

Turano Baking Co. ‏@turanobaking Loving all things bread from Chicago, IL #BreadChat

 

 

David Semple ‏@ShakeySemple @AmateurBakers good evening from CoDown #BreadChat

 

 

Janice Bell ‏@jbell54 #breadchat signing in

 

 

Paulo Sebastião ‏@floursaltwater Howdy from Stockholm, Sweden! Bread lover here and recently turned "weekend" apprentice #breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers We're thrilled to once again have @EricFrenchBaker as our co-host, today chatting about pre-ferments. #BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers When you come online, please say hello and tell us where you're tweeting from (even if you'll be listening in :-) #BreadChat

 

 

Simon ‏@flour_and_yeast @AmateurBakers I'm here #breadchat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers @tiaingle Welcome to #BreadChat! Thanks for waking up early in Australia to join us!

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers Welcome to #BreadChat -- welcoming bread bakers, both amateur and professional, from around the globe!

 

 

Tia Ingle ‏@tiaingle Think I'm up on time for #BreadChat

 

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏@AmateurBakers #BreadChat in 5!