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PreFerment Problem

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Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

PreFerment Problem

Quick help needed once again...

I made the following pre-ferment last night:

50g mature 100% hydration sourdough starter
180g water
130g flour

This morning, after about 9 hours, it passed the float test, however I wasn't ready to make the dough yet.  3 hours later, so after 12 hours of fermentation, I was ready to make the dough, but now the pre-ferment seemed more liquid and thin.  I tried a float test and it sinks.  What can I do to save it in a shorter time?  I want to make the dough today and don't have time to wait another 10 hours.  Also, why would this have happened?

John

Ford's picture
Ford

Take half of the present preferment (180g) and add 78 g flour and 103 g water.  Let this ferment for about an hour and continue with your recipe.  I believe the little critters (lactobacteria and yeast) ran out of food and so they went to sleep, so to speak.

Hastily,

Ford

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Thank you SO much for the quick reply Ford.  This is exactly the advice I needed.  I will advise on how it worked!

John

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

will go through its food very quickly and even 9 hours is pushing it - 12 was too much.  What recipe requires such a liquid levain and long ferment of it?

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Dabrownman.  The Oakland Sourdough Recipe:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/29063/oakland-sourdough

Scroll to the bottow where the writer posts the Pre Ferment (originally not listed in his recipe).  I made the mistake of pre fermenting for 12+ hours.  His recipe calls for 9 hours.  I was not aware that you could over ferment a pre ferment.  I have read that some levains call for an overnight up to 16 hours pre ferment so I thought it would be ok.  I guess a longer ferment time would be ok for a drier, higher flour % pre ferment?

I thought it was quite wet.  My last attempt of this recipe produced a super slack dough, so I'm a little worried about this pre ferment being so wet.

We will see tomorrow!

John

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

rule of thumb the more liquid the levain the faster the yeast will go though the available food.  I'm doing an experiment now in its 2nd day where I took 1 g (hard to measure such a small amount) of 65% hydro starter and mixed it with 100 g of flour and 75 grams of water and let it sit on the counter for 24 hours.  It nearly tripled in 24 hours and it didn't collapse either.  It was ready to make a loaf of bread.

Here is the test  http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/30755/sd-starter-experiment-how-long-can-it-ferment-counter-goo-overtakes-it

I sometimes take a 65% - 70% levian built over a 12 hour period on the counter in the winter (6 hours summer) and refrigerate it for 24-48 hours if I'm not going to use it right away. As soon as it warms up it is fine.

I don't see many recipes with levians over 100% as it is and a long counter top build time.  Am eager to look at this one.  Thanks for the link.

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

at baybakin's recipe.   She or he says it is a 78% hydration formula but every time I calculate it out I get 95% exactly.  You posted that is was slack like ciabatta and you were right when it is a 95% Hydro.  The boule baybakin posted looks like it might be the 78% hydro they say it is even though the holes don't look near big enough.  I'm thinking that one of two things happened.  It really is a 78% hydro dough and there are some errors in the formula or,  the flour and water got mixed up  for the levin and the levain is 175 g of flour and 135 g of water instead of the other way around.  This would produce a 65% hydro dough that would look like the picture they posted for this boule.

A 95% hydro dough would look like ciabatta not a high rising boule with medium holes.

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Dabrownman.  Thank you so much for looking into this.  My preferment is now working and floating as per Ford's suggested advice to reactivate it.  However, how much flour do you suggest I add to the final build to compensate for this high % of water?  This is the recipe I followed:  

310g Sourdough Starter (130% hydration)
250g Water
440g Good quality unbleached AP/Bread Flour
60g Whole Grain Flour (I use whatever I have, WW/Rye/Spelt, etc)
12g salt (I use course grey sea salt)
(50g boiling water)

I do not want a ciabatta like last week. 

John

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

ou already have 475 G of water inckuding the starter and the boiling water,  to get to 75% you need 635 g of flour - and you have 635 g right now and that cals at 75%.  I had to miscalculate previously.  Sounds like you are OK  right where you are.

Did y0u not use the 50 g of 100% hydro starter called for in the recipe? 

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

This is exactly what I did:

Levain Build

50g mature 100% hydration sourdough starter
180g water
130g flour

Final Build

 310g Levain
250g Water
440g Bread Flour/AP Flour (plus 2 tbsp more flour)
60g WW/Rye Flour
12g salt
50g hot water

I added an extra the 2 etxra tbsp of flour to the final build to compensate for the high % of water that you suggested in your previous message.  I just now completed the first in bowl stretch and fold and I notice a huge difference in the dough consistency already from my last week's bake.  I think I will be fine.  What do you think?

John

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

are well on your way to a nice boule!  The feel is where it is at when it comes to bread.  You can tell when it is right - and you have for this bread.  Sounds like you should come up with something close to baybakin's - a fine baker who makes great bread.

I had to refrigerate the whole grain half of the starter test when it doubled again at 32 hours.  The white half is still ojn the counter at 32 hours buit it won't make it much longer :-)

Song Of The Baker's picture
Song Of The Baker

Thanks for all your help on this one Dabrownman.  I will be baking this one tomorrow morning after I retard the shaped loaf in the fridge overnight.  I think I will be a bit more confident and try at a batard shape and not a boule this time around.  If it comes out nicely I have you to thank!

Also, I just noticed you are from Arizona.  My parents are leaving tomorrow morning for a 6 month snowbird nesting in Mesa.  I can imagine that the climate down there effects bread baking quite a bit - just like here in Vancouver, BC for our winter months but with opposite effects.

John