The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

No Knead Detmolder Method for Rye Loaf

sasidhar79's picture
sasidhar79

No Knead Detmolder Method for Rye Loaf

Hi 

I am looking for method that combines No Knead method and Detmolder method. 

Please let me know if anybody has ever tried this combination and please let me know if it can be done.The reason I need this method is because I do not have a kitchen mixer to knead the dough as required for detmolder method. 

thank you

 

regards

sasi

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Hi Sasi,

I do this a lot. The bulk proof is usually 1 hour (if you use the yeast) - fold twice, at 15 min and at 30 min.

From 40% rye upwards you won't see much gluten development, but the dough still improves.

Cheers,

Juergen

sasidhar79's picture
sasidhar79

I am sorry, I am new to baking,  I could not understand your instructions can please elaborate them.

 

thank you

 

sasi

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

sasi,

In order to better understand how I can help you may I ask some questions in return:

1. What kind of rye bread are you aiming for? Pure rye, or a rye/wheat mix?

2. What recipes do you want to use? Where did you get them from?

3. Are you looking at specific processes, e.g. 3-stage?

4. What is your experience with sourdough?

Best Wishes,

Juergen

sasidhar79's picture
sasidhar79

Hi Juergen

I am looking at,

1. 50% rye and 50% bread flour

2. I want to use Detmolder method/recipe from Hammelman's book "Bread"

3. I am looking at the 3 stage process but I do not have a mixer for kneading hence I would like to do a "No Knead"  approach as time is not a constraint.

4.I have been baking with sourdough for about 2 years, mostly no knead method.

 

thank you

 

regards

sasi

 

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

His Rye recipes are very good, I would call most of them authentic German.

You are entering a world of endless possibilities there. Welcome!

My main sources about the "Detmolder" methods are Hamelman's book, a blog of a German master baker (Wolfgang Süpke) and the original documents from the Arbeitsgemeinschaft für Getreideforschung in Detmold (AfG), where these methods originated.

Methods? Yes, there are two of them. The three-stage method is very intriguing - with its complexity and precision, and it makes wonderful bread. 

There is also the single-stage method, which also makes great bread, and this is what Hamelman uses for many of the rye recipes where he doesn't use 3-stage Detmolder, essentially all the breads that have a 80% hydration rye starter. He just doesn't use the name.

The AfG published a number of guidelines for bakers giving the main parameters for a sourdough build (hydration, temperature, time) and recommendations how to use it in doughs with varying rye content (30% to 100%)

The use of yeast in their recommendations (as in Hamelman's recipes) is mainly for scheduling: If you follow the recipopes precisely they will tick along almost like a clock; a baker can refill the oven once an hour.

If you follow the instructions from the AfG worksheets and combine them with the techniques given by Hamelman (soaker, scald, added seeds ...) you can very quickly come up with a huge variation of breads.

I have put the instructions for single-stage Detmolder into spreadsheets, you can substitute the sourdough for 3-stage Detmolder sourdough in the final dough without any problems:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkcYHhPxccKtdERlMzlWOEhBQ2Z5c1Z0MUZYRGVTZlE

You can export this as an Excel spreadsheet; the formulas will work then.

Look at these for some other possibilities:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23830/german-baking-day

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23956/detmolder-sourdough-and-without-yeast-comparison

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/28511/my-ultimate-caraway

But now back to your initial question:

With 50% rye you won't see much Gluten development - as a rule of thumb treat a dough with less than 50% rye like a wheat dough and doughs with more than 50% rye as a rye dough (sticky, use wet hands, don't worry about the mess...)

Mixing of these high % ryes is not so important - it mainly aids to hydrate the flour. 

You can try several approaches: 

1. Just mix until the dough is well hydrated, then bulk ferment

2. Just mix until the dough is well hydrated, then bulk ferment, stretch and fold after 20 minutes

3. Autolyse the bread flour before mixing

In this post are links to the original documents (in German) I mentioned above:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/28726/german-sour-dough-starter#comment-217424

Happy Experimenting,

Jürgen

sasidhar79's picture
sasidhar79

thank you very much