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Outside hard and black but inside still soft and smelly

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Wei Hrn's picture
Wei Hrn

Outside hard and black but inside still soft and smelly

This is my 2nd time doing baguette and it turns out to be the same result. The baguette smells yeasty oily when baking. After baking the outside hard and brown but inside still soft and smells weird. But i only use 3-4 drops of oil to grease the container for proofing. At the last proofing the dough din't rise much althought i put it for more than an hour. I don't have a stand mixer so i can only use my hands. Need some help please newbie here.

breadforfun's picture
breadforfun

The more you tell us about your recipe and method, the better the answers will be.  Baguettes, while they are very simple, are among the most difficult to master.

 

Wei Hrn's picture
Wei Hrn
breadforfun's picture
breadforfun

Both of the recipes you referred to have a lot more yeast in them than I am used to.  The first one uses 4 gm of Instant Dry Yeast for 200 gm of flour, which is 2% (Baker's %).  The second one uses less, 8 gm of (I am assuming) Active Dry Yeast which is 1.6% for 500 gm flour.  Depending on the time and temperature of the bulk fermentation, they may be overproofed, which is why they didn't rise after shaping.  I would suggest one of these recipes from the TFL site (there are many, many more, and you can search in the upper left corner of the page):

For a straight dough, try: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/28565/baguettes-made-straight-dough

For more flavor, use a poolish: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/handbook/poolish-baguettes

Also, if the crust is dark and seems done while the crumb is gummy, you may want to reduce the oven temperature to give the center more time to cook.  Are you using steam? or scoring the loaves?  Both are important steps.

-Brad

 

cranbo's picture
cranbo

If you can, next time take some photos of the whole process and share them, especially the end result. 

I agree with breadforfun, you may want to use less yeast. About how long did it take for them to rise during the initial fermentation? And how long did they rise after shaping? 

smells yeasty oily when baking

Yeasty smelling could mean overproofed. Shouldn't smell oily while baking...is your oil rancid, or could there be something else in your oven that's causing that smell? 

Wei Hrn's picture
Wei Hrn

Brad, So how many % of yeast should i put? I proof in room temperature for 50-60 min. I put a tray on boiling water throughout the baking. Is it okay? 1 more thing i would like to ask. Some recipe calls for AP flour. What is the difference using AP flour and only bread flour? The 1st recipe I use calls for cake flour.  Is cake flour and AP flour the same? Cake flour is medium protien flour right?

cranbo, The dough look kinda ugly so i didn't want to take picture.. >,< haha.. I put my dough in a lightly oiled (3-4 drops of corn oil) container in my kitchen for 50-60 min. The size after proofing is just nice about 2.5 times bigger.. I put my dough in a aluminium pan in the oven. I don't have a baguette pan so I just put it on the pan without greasing or flouring the pan. I am wondering can i use any cloth to put in the oven? I am afraid it will burn.. 

Thanks for the replies! :D

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Use 1/2 the yeast...right now your yeast level in the recipes you listed is 2% of total flour weight, by halving it you reduce to 1%. For lean doughs like baguette, you can reduce even further. Possibly slightly longer rise time, but longer slower rise means better flavor. 

AP flour is lower protein than bread flour. Cake flour is even lower protein than AP flour. Mixing AP + cake flour I believe is to emulate the performance of European flours, which IIRC tend to be lower protein. 

If your bread is 2.5x the size AFTER proofing (i.e, after final shaping), it is almost certainly overproofed. You can get away with a 2.5x increase during bulk fermentation, but not during proofing. Shoot for double during bulk fermentation, and a little less than double during proofing (to make sure you get good oven spring). 

Don't put any cloth in the oven (unless the cloth remains soaking wet and you're using it to generate steam). If you need to use a surface to transport your dough to the oven, use parchment paper. The only people that can get away with putting cloth in the oven are bagel bakers :)

 

 

Wei Hrn's picture
Wei Hrn

cranbo, oops.. typed wrongly. I get 2.5x during bulk fermentation. I use greaseproof paper during the 1st time.. the baugette sticks to the paper and the bottom part of the baguette is soft (like muffin but harder). the bottom part should be crispy like the top part right? 

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Yes, the bottom should be crispy. Whether it's on a baking stone, or a baking sheet, the bottom should be crispy and not damp. 

BTW, if the baguette is still sticking baking (it shouldn't), next time you can spray a little cooking spray or cooking oil on the paper (just a little bit!), or you can use flour (rice flour or 50/50 rice and wheat flour works well), or cornmeal, or some combination. 

Your comment that the bottom of the crust is soft and/or damp suggests that you may want to check your oven temperature with a separate thermometer, as well as the positioning of your oven racks. Every oven is different, and has different hot spots. Could be that you are not getting sufficient heat on the bottom of your loaf when baking. Could be that your oven is not correctly calibrated and not getting hot enough. 

Some pictures of your final product will be helpful again here. 

Wei Hrn's picture
Wei Hrn

Okay.. So after the top is set I turn off the top heat and just heat the bottom until the bottom is crispy and put a little oil on the gresaeproof paper to prevent it from sticking. The final product is already in my stomach.. >,< haha I am doing one more today using the poolish method. I'll take some picture after baking. :D

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

1) what kind of yeast (exact name) are you using?  

2) dimentions of the oven     hight, width and depth  

3) Is your aluminum pan bright and shiny? 

Welcome to The Fresh Loaf!   :)

 

Wei Hrn's picture
Wei Hrn

I am using eagle instant dry yeast (http://www.ferna.com.ph/core/index.php?q=content/products/614)

11 x 15 x 11

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Super!   :)    That is really, I mean really helpful!   Get back to you soon...   :) 

Mini  :)

 

Wei Hrn's picture
Wei Hrn

Errr..?? Haha.. Okay.. 

yy's picture
yy

Lol sometimes humor gets a little jumbled as it travels through cyberspace. What temperature are you baking your loaves at? Smaller ovens often have problems with uneven heat, since the heating elements are so close to what you're baking. I think seeing photos of the inside and outside of your bread will help people understand your problem better.

Wei Hrn's picture
Wei Hrn

Okay. I have some pictures here.

Dough before baking after proofing. i find it hard to shape the dough.. it tears easily.. I used the stretch and fold method.

 

The baguette and the greaseproof paper sticks together. 

Well.. inside is still soft.. 

mwilson's picture
mwilson

Don't use greaseproof paper, I've experienced the same sticking problem. What you want is Parchment/Baking Paper. Problem solved!

cranbo's picture
cranbo

To echo mwilson, use parchment, or consider just dusting the bottom of the pan with flour or corn meal. A light oiling and dusting of the pan will get you equally good release. 

Once you solve the sticking issue, one idea you can do to support browning would be to actually flip your loaf over gently, once the top crust is well-set and somewhat brown (probably at least after 75% of baking time has elapsed). That way you can get some browning on the bottom too. 

Looks like you got good browning on the top crust. The crumb looks pretty light and fluffy. A bit hard to tell from the photos, is the crumb fully baked (dry) as desired? 

Wei Hrn's picture
Wei Hrn

I see.. so I get the wrong paper. I'll try oiling and dusting the pan next time i bake. 

Nope. The crumbs is still a bit wet. I think I should bake at lower temperture but it may take hours. haha.. I think the smelly smell is the alcohol smell from the yeast. Is it? 

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Get yourself an instant read thermometer and take the temperature inside the baked bread. When it's done, it should read at least 200F, and up to about 210F. Make sure you allow your bread to cool for 30 minutes before slicing, this should help that as well. 

Don't know about the smell. I only get a strong yeasty smell when the bread is overproofed or underbaked/still raw. 

 

Wei Hrn's picture
Wei Hrn

I guess i have to grab some money and go shopping. this time the baguette doesn't smell like the other ones.. Its just that inside is not fully bake. i guess i'll have to turn down the heat and increase the time. 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

that reflects the heat away and use the black one in the oven.  But first ... flip it upside down and stick it in the lower shelf notch.  Preheat the pan with the oven.  When the oven is hot, slip a piece of stiff cardboard (temporary peel) under the parchment paper with the oven-ready dough on it  onto the hot black surface in the oven.  Slip out the cardboard and use it later to remove the bread from the oven.  This set up works great for pizzas too!  Once you've got real baking parchment you will see out fast and easy this is.  It also makes it easy to pull out the parchment paper half way into the bake and save on parchment paper (good to know if the parchment is hard to get a hold of.)  Reuse the parchment until it becomes brittle.  :)

More Q's:

It looks like the lower heating coil runs around the outside of the bottom of the oven.  Do I see that correctly?  Is there a fan also inside the oven?  And is there a second black pan, maybe one with lots of holes?

Wei Hrn's picture
Wei Hrn

Ermm.. i don't quite understand.. the final dough i put it on a parchment paper to proof and when it is ready slip a cardboard under i to trasfer it to the oven. Am I right? 

Ya. the coil on both top and bottom are like that. There is no fan in that oven. i have to turn the tray if i see one side is darker. I only have that 1 black pan. 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

don't bake the cardboard.  Cut a piece or two of cardboard that easily fit into your oven and use to transfer loaf & parchment.  If you have to turn the loaf during the bake, turn the parchment in the oven or pull out the parchment (it will no longer stick) while turning.  

Because the coil wraps around it might be tricky getting heat in the middle under the loaf where it should be.  That's the reason for turning the pan upside-down, to trap lower heat under the tray.  I am very curious to see the difference.  :)

Wei Hrn's picture
Wei Hrn

Ohh... I see.. Thats why u want the pan to be upside down. But where should i put the pan of boiling water for steam?? I am out of flour and my car is in the workshop so i think i'll bake next week. Haha.. I want to see the difference too. Hope it will be a success! :) Btw do u know how to freeze dough after shaping? I am thinking of doing big batch and freezing it. I've read about it but still not sure whether to do or not. 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

ready to go from zipper bag to toaster.  

I've tried a lot of different methods to steam loaves in mini ovens but I tend to come around to using a closed container or foil tent to cover and trap existing steam trying to escape from the dough itself.  Either a dutch oven, glass casserole with lid or two identical fry pans or woks (handles removed) to make some kind of steam chamber.  After the initial rise and the bread starts to brown, the cover is removed to let steam escape and let crust brown further. 

Be careful with hot water dripping on your oven door, one drop can be a disaster!  Cover open door with a dry towel to protect glass when open and messing with water.

If the shiny tray fits lip to lip onto the black tray, you might consider using it to cover the dough during the first 10 minutes of baking.  That would mean flipping the black tray back to normal and probably moving it up a notch and covering the dough with the upside-down shiny pan.  Play around and see what combinations you can come up with.  :)

Wei Hrn's picture
Wei Hrn

I see.. I can create steam by covering it too.. Didn't know that. The shiny tray is smaller than the black tray. I'll see what I can do. I just need to cover it for 10 min and then open it right? Btw, What type of oven is good if I want to get one in future?