The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

lovely bubble formation but not a great rise

verve's picture
verve

lovely bubble formation but not a great rise

Hi everyone,

 

I had some amazing success with a few bakes and the last 2 have gone down in quality for some reason :( my previous successfull recipes had:

350 strong white flour

60 rye flour

100 spelt flour

300g water

14g salt

 

I had a great rise and a lot of bubbles but the one I made yesterday consisted of:

 

450 strong white

60g rye flour

300g water

14g salt.

 

The rise was half as much as the previous one, with the same weight dough. The thing that confuses me is that I still got LOTS of bubbles in this all white bread. Just not a big rise?I shaped it as a round dough with  alot of tension and I've let it rest for 2-2.5 hours before baking on both occassions.

 

the starter is 100% hydration in both of them... Im just wondering, is it the spelt flour that's helping it grow more or am I doing something wrong?

 

The starter had been fed for 1-2 days before baking on both occassion... I just cant figure out what i'm doing wrong here. Why am I getting lots and lots of small bubbles but very little seperation between them (ie, rise...)

 

 

Thank you,

 


Verve

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

The recipe without the spelt will need a longer bulk rise and proof.  :)

verve's picture
verve

thank you very much :) so 2.5 hours isn't enough because why flour takes longer?

verve's picture
verve

I see you write bulk rise AND proof.

 

Do you mean you let it bulk rise overnight and then proof, let it sit a few hours, then bake?

 

Until now I have been mixing the dough very roughly, letting it rest for 30 minutes, then kneeding it until the gluten is developed (i do the window screen test), then I let it sit covered for 2.5 hours with folds every 50 m inutes, then I shape it and cover it with a plastic bag, let it sit for 2-2.5 hours, then bake

 

should I be adding the bulk rise process and leaving it to rise that way overnight?

verve's picture
verve

Could you just clarify the following for me? Most people say they revive their levain over 3 days once taken out of the fridge. My understanding is that you keep feeding the levain and throwing half of it away and feeding again, over 3 days right?

 

My question is, when you are feeding and refeeding, is it bad to wait until the levain has finished rising, and has gone all the way back down to its original level and most of the bubbles  are gone? Is this the wrong way to be reviving over 3 days? should I be refeeding when the levain reached the maximum rise rather than wait for it to go back down?

 

I ask this because I go to work in the morning, by the time im back the levain is back to its original level, even if i leave it by the window with cold air hitting it... I have a feeling this is the wrong way to get strong levain?

 

Thank you very much for your help :)

 


David

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

David,  Sounds to me like waiting too long to feed.  You've probably found your answer by now but...

Let it dome or peak and just start to fall down,  then discard and feed.  Waiting until activity "flat lines" does not build yeast numbers but can build flavour.  If the fed starter is using up the food completely before you can get back to the starter to feed it again, reduce the amount of starter you are feeding and/or give it more food to munch through so that it will still be bubbly (it is ok if maybe already peaked and falling) by the time you get to it.  You can also make the starter thicker so there is more food simply because yeast mobility is impaired.  They will still increase in numbers it just takes them longer.  (they have to drag themselves around the banquet table)

Feeding over 3 days is typical of a starter that has extremely low yeast activity in a cold kitchen or the starter was in cold storage in the fridge for a few months or hooched or badly neglected.   I'm not sure of your conditions when you mention feeding over 3 days.  I tend to build activity over one or two feeds about 8 to 12 hours apart at a feeding ratio of one part starter to 5 parts water and 5 parts flour at 23°C (74°F.) 

If the kitchen is warmer than 23° C I tend to use more flour to starter up to 10 times more depending on the temperature.  If the kitchen is cooler, I tend to use less flour to starter (down to even amounts)  so that it is peaking, or just falling from the peak (not at complete collapse, the starter should be in action of deflating) at about 8 - 12 hrs or when I can check on the starter.   Temperature and water amounts makes a big difference in how fast the yeast eats thru the food.   Sunshine will warm the starter too!  Seasons play a role and so do night time sinks in temperature.  

I hope this helps you.  :)

KMIAA's picture
KMIAA

You don't specify if you used yeast or starter for your bread.

verve's picture
verve

apologies,

 

I used starter. I think I mentioned it was 100% hydrated...

 

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Simply lengthen the fermenting times (watch the dough not the clock) as you have it down for the spelt dough.  See if you can wait a little longer with the non-spelt dough, even adding another stretch and fold if needed in the bulk rise.  Let the dough rise just a little bit more than the spelt loaf before baking.

Your overall rise times will be shorter with some spelt in the dough.

verve's picture
verve

thanks so much I will try that this week :)

 

 

 

KMIAA's picture
KMIAA

I think I must have overlooked it. 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

with spelt says the dough will proof much faster when it is in the mix to any great degree.  What was your 100% hydro starter and how many grams did you use?

verve's picture
verve

ahhh didnt spot I forgot to put the starter measurements :) thanks fo the reminder!!

 

starter was circa 220g

 

made with standard white flour...