The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

My hand kneaded recipe didnt came out good in my new spiral dough mixer.

claudiarana's picture
claudiarana

My hand kneaded recipe didnt came out good in my new spiral dough mixer.

Hi there, im trying to get stared as a professional baker, so, after a year of doing everything by hand, i finally bought a spiral dough mixer, but something went wrong.

I was so excited and tried to make 6 batches of this recipe:

Sandwich bread

  • 319 gr white bread flour
  • 213 gr wheat flour
  • 18 gr dry milk
  • 1 egg
  • 250 ml water
  • 10 gr salt
  • 74 gr sugar
  • 5 gr dry yeast
  • 85 gr butter

And 85gr of flax seed hidratated with 85 of water.

So, i use to make 3 loaves of these by hand, i use to use warm water, softed butter and mix the flax seed after the kneading.

I tough i wasnt big deal to make the same recipe in my new spiral dough mixer http://www.batidorasblazer.com/a20.html

But i was wrong :(

I use the same technique, first, all the dry ingredients but salt, then added warm water and eggs, then salt, and then softed butter and after like 10 mins i added the flax seed.

When i do this by hand, i put some more flour to the mix so i wont be sticky.

But this time, the dough keep being sticky, i added more flour but still sticky. I tough that maybe it was the kneading time, so i put more time like 15 more mins for 6 loaves, but it still had weird look (strechy but weak).

I was afraid of over knead it, so i took it out, finally it wasnt sticky but breaking and very very hot. Should i use cold water intead of warm water? im not expert i don´t know if i need to use less water in the mixer or if my recipe isnt suitable for it.

Please take a look

 

Thanks in advance and sorry if i misspelled something.

 

MANNA's picture
MANNA

It looks to me and from what you describe that you over-kneaded the dough. You dont have to work it as much using a spiral mixer as you do by hand. I would say 4-5 min in the mixer is enough to develop the dough.

pageta's picture
pageta

When working with a new piece of equipment, I would start with the recipes that came with it. Once you get a feel for how the mixer works, you can migrate back to your old recipe, changing one or two things at a time.

I just started making Tartine loaves after using a Bosch for all of my bread baking career. Even though we prefer whole wheat bread (which is, in part, why I make bread), I started with the Tartine country loaf and am gradually adding whole wheat flour and tweaking the recipe to make it my own.

I know when my mom got her Bosch back in the 80's, she had trouble using it with the recipe she had always made by hand. She used their recipe and tweaked it over the years to make it her own and makes very good bread with it.

You really need to get to know your mixer using recipes that were written specifically for your mixer and then you can start using recipes that are general in nature.

 

proth5's picture
proth5

If you are on your way to becoming a professional baker, let me advise you to study the concept of "Desired Dough Temperature."  Every reputable book for professional bakers will explain this concept better than I can. (Or else someone will chime in.)

One of the things that is different with a spiral from hand mixing is the "friction factor" that the mixer adds.  This heats up the dough, making it warmer than it would get by hand.  Especially if there is fat in the dough (but even if there isn't) this will make a difference in the look, feel, and aroma of the dough as it mixes and as it comes off the mixer.

So, short answer - yes, use cool (or cooler) water.  But understand how to calculate and manage dough temperature.  As a professional baker it is an important tool in your toolbox for producing consistent bread on a predictable schedule...

Hope this helps.

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

Hi,

And welcome to the site. 

The character of any loaf of bread is as dependent upon the recipe as it is the baker's techniques used in making that bread.  The procedure that you used by hand to make bread is now a thing of the past and you have to look at your mixer and recipes with a whole new eye.  Things are going to be very different.  It will be a little bit frustrating at first but you will get used to it quickly.

I would suggest that you read Bread by Jeffrey Hamelman as he describes the various types of mixers and how long dough should be mixed using a mixer.   If you have not read this book, it is filled with excellent usable  information that you will want to know as a baker.

Generally speaking, mixer time is going to be a lot less than hand kneading time.  Mixers do warm dough as a result of friction and this often means mixing with cool water is in order.  As you have already discovered, the final dough from a mixer can be quite different from that same dough that is mixed and kneaded by hand.

Relax, take a deep breath, and know that soon you will have become friends with the mixer, everything will be okay and you will again be creating wonderful bread.

Jeff

 

claudiarana's picture
claudiarana

Thank you guys! you were really helpful! 

And after reading a lot, i got the same conclusions that you gave to me :)

  • My machine, didnt came with a good manual, just technical info, and also without recipes, they forgot to add those important things to the product :( 
     
  • I just ordered the book (Bread by Jeffrey Hamelman) still im in mexico and it will take some time to get to me.
     
  • For now im going to make 3 batches, with cool water and 5 mins of mixing instead, and see what happens.

I´ll post my results soon, thank you all!