The Fresh Loaf

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do i HAVE to use durum wheat?

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optics's picture
optics

do i HAVE to use durum wheat?

hi, Jan Hedh uses a percentage of durum flour in a lot of his recipes in "artisan breads" but it's impossible to find in south africa. can i ignore the durum flour and make the bread entirely of bread flour? the confusion around durum/semolina puts me off substituting semolina. thanks

optics's picture
optics

what do you think? will kamut be a good substitute? tks

ananda's picture
ananda

Hello optics,


Having looked through my copy of Jan Hedh's lovely book, I found only around a dozen recipes calling for durum wheat.   Most of these I would say you could use a white bread flour as substitute.   However, some are really much better with durum; especially the lemon bread.

Kammut is something really different.   It carries a trademark, although it is originally derived from durum wheat I believe.   It has to be grown organically, and it is a 100% wholegrain flour.   You would not be able to use it as a substitute in the aforementioned recipes.

Best wishes

Andy

optics's picture
optics

hi Andy, thanks for this and grrrrr! is all i can say :-)) although it is good news that i can use white bread flour. we're particularly keen on ciabatta so durum wheat would've been a bonus but i'm sure we'll enjoy it anyway. i appreciate your help. p.s. kamut seems to be an interesting grain but further research indicates that it's used more as a cereal.

Jame-L's picture
Jame-L

Hello: Just a a note about KAMUT(R)Brand khorasan wheat - Durum wheat and KAMUT(R) wheat both are very high in protein and usually can be used interchangeably. There is KAMUT(R) white flour available, so it is not always a whole grain. It is however, always organic.

More info follows ***

KAMUT® Brand khorasan is an organic, non-genetically modified, ancient wheat variety similar to durum. In 1990, “KAMUT” was registered as a trademark by the Quinn family in order to support organic farming and preserve the ancient khorsasan wheat variety. Under the KAMUT® Brand name, khorasan wheat must always be grown organically, never be hybridized or modified, and contain high levels of purity and nutrition. Today, Kamut International owns and has registered the KAMUT® trademark in over 40 countries, and is responsible for protection and marketing of all KAMUT® Brand khorasan wheat throughout the world.
KAMUT® khorasan is grown on dryland certified organic farms primarily in Montana, Alberta, and Saskatchewan. The grain is prized by consumers who appreciate the grain for its high energy nutrition, easy digestibility, nutty/buttery taste, and firm texture. KAMUT® khorasan wheat is higher in protein, selenium, amino acids, and Vitamin E than most modern wheat and contains essential minerals such as magnesium and zinc. It is used as whole grain berries, whole grain flour, white flour, flakes, and puffs to make a variety of products. Some specific benefits of using KAMUT® khorasan are receiving more nutrients, protein, and taste than conventional whole wheat - plus supporting organic agriculture and helping to preserve an ancient grain.

Kamut International promotes and protects the KAMUT® brand name by focusing efforts on supply chain integrity, trademark monitoring, research, education, marketing, and customer relations. These activities are supported in part, through a no-cost trademark license agreement with companies using the grain in products they manufacture and /or sell. The trademark license agreement facilitates establishing a supply chain that can be reviewed, thus ensuring the integrity and purity of the grain.

Jamie
www.kamut.com

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi optics,

Can you source any "Tipo 00" flour?   If you want to make ciabatta, you will probably find bread flour is too strong.


If "00" is not available, you could use a mix of bread flour and soft flour; say 60:40 ratio?   In UK household soft flour is sold as "Plain Flour".   Protein is  [approx] between 8.5 and 10.5% depending on brand.   But the reason I specifically mentioned durum flour as mandatory in the Lemon Bread is for the colour of the final crust and crumb as much as anything.   Durum will produce a lovely yellowish tinge.

For Kamut, I have made bread using Kamut (R) here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/25067/wheat-levain-and-kamut-boules-baked-woodfired-oven

All good wishes

Andy

optics's picture
optics

stunning thread about your outside oven and kamut baking Andy. i bet you've come a long way since then.

whoopee i sure can get "oo" flour - it's sold here as pizza flour. shall i just use this in place of durum? in the same quantities?

tks
Maureen

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Maureen,

You can either just substitute "00" for the durum flour, or, you could use all "00" in the final dough.   Stick with strong flour for the pre-ferment as Hedh directs.   Water is @ 80% in the formula; you should be fine with either of these options.   Let us know how you get on.

Best wishes

Andy

optics's picture
optics

Andy thank you so much. i'm privileged to get advice from someone with your experience. weekend is baking time for me because i work so i'll give it a go then. i can't wait and will give you an update next week.

thanks again and regards
Maureen

optics's picture
optics

in jan hedh's ciabatta pg 171 the poolish has 2g yeast, 250g flour, 250g water and the dough adds 5g yeast, 325g flour, 250g water, 15g salt. these quantities are from the emailed document sent to me by the publishers. however, the actual hard-copy of the book calls for 1/4 tsp yeast, 2 1/2 cup flour, 1 cup water and the dough adds 3/4 tsp yeast, 3 3/4 cups flour, 1 cup water and 3 tsp salt. i can't tell if both instructions are the same in bakers percentages but the reason i checked it that it seems like a lot of yeast.......or isn't it? i followed the emailed document.

i've used JMonkey's recipe a few times and the bread's delish. Poolish: 1/10g yeast, 136 g flour, 136  g water.  the dough adds .5g yeast, 318 g flour, 195 g water and 9 g salt. 

i'm wondering if Hedh's using fresh yeast and JMonkey's using instant yeast. is that possible? and if it is does it mean i should divide Hedh's yeast quantities by 3? i think i read that somewhere :-)) tks

p.s. waiting the put the dough with lots of yeast into the oven .... holding thumbs.

 

BTW tks for the information on kamut Jamie

 

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Maureen,

Hedh's recipes are for fresh yeast.   I don't use Instant yeast, so hopefully someone else can clarify your conversion factor, but it sounds about right to me.

My book is the copy published in England in 2007.   Numbers are all metric.   It would not have been given shelf space in my house otherwise.

I calculate total yeast at 1.12% on flour in his recipe [7g/625g].   That's not much at all.

Best wishes

Andy

 

optics's picture
optics

thanks again Andy. if you're happy i'm happy. i followed the gram recipe as mentioned in my previous post i got 4 funnily shaped smallish loaves each one weighing about 225g. the crumb's a bit tighter than i expected but mein gott the flavour is out of this world. 

 

please let me know if you think something's not right and thank you again for the help. to be honest if i hadn't posted on this forum that i would bake ciabatta this weekend i probably would have procrastinated for a few months :-)

regards
Maureen

ananda's picture
ananda

Hello Maureen,

The real secret in producing great Ciabatta is learning the skill required to manipulate very wet dough during all the stages of proof.   That really is the only difficult aspect to this bread; and I grant you, it is quite difficult.   It only comes with practice..and more and a lot more.

You are well on the way here; but more practice will help you to achieve your goal.

Best wishes

Andy