The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Parchment Paper Safe vs Teflon?

  • Pin It
BoyntonStu's picture
BoyntonStu

Parchment Paper Safe vs Teflon?

We learn something new every day.

I never knew anything about parchment paper.

I certainly did not imagine that parchment paper can have silicone, flourine, and 'non-porous' cement.

Millions/billions of loafs are baked in gas, coal, or wood fired ovens.

I won't podner what gases could be detected in a fossel fueled oven.

I believe that an electric oven and Teflon is pretty safe below 476* F.

stU

From WIKI:


Plant-based parchment

See also: Parchment paper (baking)

Vegetable (paper) parchment is made by passing a waterleaf made of pulp fibers into sulfuric acid. The sulfuric acid hydrolyses and solubilises the main natural organic polymer, cellulose, present in the pulp wood fibers. The paper web is then washed in water, which stops the hydrolysis of the cellulose and causes a kind of cellulose coating to form on the waterleaf. The final paper is dried. This coating is a natural non-porous cement, that gives to the vegetable parchment paper its resistance to grease and its semi-translucency.

Other processes can be used to obtain grease-resistant paper, such as waxing the paper or using fluorine-based chemicals. Highly beating the fibers gives an even more translucent paper with the same grease resistance. Silicone and other coatings may also be applied to the parchment. A silicone-coating treatment produces a cross-linked material with high density, stability and heat resistance and low surface tension which imparts good anti-stick or release properties. Chromium salts can also be used to impart moderate anti-stick properties.



Parchment paper

Modern parchment paper is made by running sheets of paper pulp through a bath of sulfuric acid[1] (a method similar to how tracing paper is made) or sometimes zinc chloride. This process partially dissolves or gelatinizes the paper, a process which is reversed by washing the chemicals off followed by drying. This treatment forms a sulfurized cross-linked material with high density, stability, and heat resistance, and low surface energy – thereby imparting good non-stick or release properties. The treated paper has an appearance similar to that of traditionalparchment.

suave's picture
suave

You know, I think that to help your business venture you should concentrate on demonstrating that your product is capable of producing a superb loaf of bread.  Stirring "controversy" will not get you far here.

BoyntonStu's picture
BoyntonStu

I think that you are out of turn.

We were discussing silicone and Teflon and their safety on a Silicone pan thread.

Again, I am NOT selling a product.

Do you use parchment?

Did you know that parchement has silicone, cement,  and flourine in it?

Is knowledge "controversal"?

I  suggest that we allow people to share information without censorship.

stU

 

 

 

 

afrika's picture
afrika

Totally concur.  I  have  concerns about parchment paper.  Why is it contraversial to bring up concerns and get others input ?

gmabaking's picture
gmabaking

Evidently there is parchment paper and then there is culinary parchment paper. The posts caused me to do some online research where I found that culinary paper is usually coated with something called quillon. The one that I buy is is unbleached and coated with silicone. I can usually find it at the kitchen products store. Wasn't able to get there last time I needed it so now have Costco brand which seems thinner but is working okay.  I  do prefer the unbleached product for safety concerns.

BoyntonStu's picture
BoyntonStu

 The one that I buy is is unbleached and coated with silicone. 


Do you trust silicone for safety at 475* F ?

suave's picture
suave

There is nothing controversial about knowledge.  However, knowledge people tend to seek here is the kind that makes our breads better, knowledge, I must note, you are in a rather desperate need of.  So forgive me if I fail to understand why instead of trying to learn something you keep talking about teflon issues.

aytab's picture
aytab

"I believe that teflon is safe...." I read this as "please refer to to my adjustable pan I invented and am trying to market here, so that when I get it to production all of you will buy it." and yes Stu you were discussing silicone safety etc, but on my thread and if you re-read my original post I didn't care about that, I just wanted tip on how to use them better or to know if they were a waste of time. Thast's why I asked you to move your saftey discussion elsewhere. Which you have done. Thank you for no longer hijacking my thread.

BoyntonStu's picture
BoyntonStu

I believe that Teflon is safe refers to using Teflon as a sheet for cookies, breads, etc.

(I also believe that Teflon is safe in my invention)

"I read this as "please refer to to my adjustable pan I invented and am trying to market here, so that when I get it to production all of you will buy it."

This statement is your construct, not mine.

Please do not put your words into my mouth.

Enjoy this great forum where we all attempt to  improve our Fresh Loafs.



 

 

 

G-man's picture
G-man

It's understandable that it's difficult for people to take you seriously. The majority of your posts to this point have been you trying to sell your product. It isn't a stretch at all for you to be badmouthing parchment paper when trying to sell your product, advertisers constantly badmouth their competition, and feigning indignation when confronted with the truth of your own actions doesn't earn you any sympathy.

You should buy ad space if you want to contribute to this community and push your product.

BoyntonStu's picture
BoyntonStu

Show one example:

"The majority of your posts to this point have been you trying to sell your product."

G-man's picture
G-man

The examples have been mostly removed, since they've been flagged as what they are (spam) and the moderators here are really on the ball. I have nothing to prove to you, most of those with an interest in these boards have seen your posts hawking your inventions. Beyond that, it isn't my job to advertise for you, nor is it a worthwhile expenditure of my time to sit here digging through posts to find any remaining examples of the ways in which you've lost the initial respect afforded to every new member of these forums.

My goal here is to get you to realize that you need to make yourself a welcome member of this community by avoiding the subject of your products altogether. You can see how many people are willing to give you chance after chance, and your meeting criticism with incredulity and trying to throw it back in the face of whoever is criticizing you...that's not really helping you, do you understand?

I was pointing out to you how your post is suspect. You can be offended and continue trying to get me to go on the defensive, which will work as well as it already has, or you can learn from it and turn yourself around. This community loves new members, but they don't like being advertised at by people posing as members. Do you get what I'm saying?

Edit: came off a bit harsher than intended

BoyntonStu's picture
BoyntonStu

You wrote harsh words and then wrote; "Edit: came off a bit harsher than intended', without removing or changing the harsh tone, I consider to be passive agreesive.

I hope that I was harsh enough for you to comprehend.



dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

proven that parchment paper killed birds at 396 degrees like Teflon has?  Has it caused birth defects like Teflon has?  I must have missed those reports but I will look for them.

BoyntonStu's picture
BoyntonStu

Yes, please reseach the chemical components that go into parchment papers and what happens when they are heated?

Please provide evidence that Teflon was a factor in human birth defects.

Do you remember Alar?

NahikuRay's picture
NahikuRay

...seriously.  Try Googling your own arguments.  What about this:  http://www.naturalnews.com/001809.html? Or this:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/25/AR2006012502041.html?  And, as to the chemical constituants of parchment paper, I would prefer hydrogen, oxygen, carbon and sulfur (cellulose:  C6H10O5, sulfuric acid:  H2SO4) over FLOURINE (fluoropolymer of tetrafluoroethylene) any day (there is, actually, an argument over whether we need a bit of sulfur in our diets.  Why do you think "nutritional" supplements like MSM (CH3SO2) exist?).  Granted, Zinc Chloride does not make me happy, either, but, apparently, it is not often used.  Still checking on that one.

BoyntonStu's picture
BoyntonStu

Have you ever eaten food/pizza cooked in a coal burning oven?

Would you prefer coal to Teflon?

What gases does hot parchment paper emit?

 

 

aloomis's picture
aloomis

My box of parchment paper actually sets an upper temperature limit of 420 or so (haven't looked recently).  I've avoided using parchment sling methods because I can't guarantee that the parchment won't pass that temperature.  I have no idea what the concerns are above those temperatures (it's a little hard to tell since paper burns at 451, and they may just be leaving a margin of error below that).   Not an argument for teflon, just something to be aware of. 

BoyntonStu's picture
BoyntonStu

Do you remember the joke about the policeman who asked  a guy what was he doing searching at night under the street lamp when he told him that he dropped it over there in the dark?

The guy answered, that there was no light over there.

We focus and we become concerned about certain things and completely ignore others.

We buy some of our clothes at GoodWill.

Some people indicate to us that they would never wear 'used' clothing.

I ask them if they ever slept in a hotel?

I say, "What person 'wore' the sheet the night before you wore it?"

In a restaurant, look at the dirtiest person eating, and imagine that he/she used the fork yesterday that is in your mouth today.

Used mattresss are also a lot of fun to discuss.  One family vs thousands.

Back to danger lurking in our ovens.

If you use gas flames in your house, I am fairly certain that the bad stuff you breath is miniscule to the stuff coming out of an electric oven, whatever you use inside of it.

FWIW

stU

 

 

 

 

 

aytab's picture
aytab

We only live once folks. Focus on what makes you happy and not what might be killing you, because I have a secret for you, being alive is killing you. In fact, Life is the number one cause of Death.

BoyntonStu's picture
BoyntonStu

That is a true statement.

We have raw vegans in our family that will not eat foods  'cooked' beyond 118* F. 

I knew a woman that washed her vegetables with distilled water.

New car smell?  Toxic fumes.  Will you buy a new car again?

The problem with most lay folks is that they do not understand basic science, and the difference between quality and quantity.

For example, the difference between Heat and Temperature.

Your body has more Heat than a lit match even though the flame has a much higher Temperature.  

Baking science combines food chemistry, biology, and physics, yet you don't have to know anything about these disciplines to be a great baker.

 

 

Wild-Yeast's picture
Wild-Yeast

One side calls it "Vegetable Parchment" the technical side "Vellum" [take on Old French name for calfskin] .  It's great stuff. I once ran out of baking vellum and used a "B" size drawing vellum instead [sprayed it with PAM]. Superior performance at dizzying cost but it worked.

I use baking vellum on a regular basis at 500 dF. It browns on the edges outside the cloache and can be reused for a second loaf bake.  

I have teflon baking mats and they are the greatest thing since sliced bread for certain types of baking but the temperature I bake bread at it's definitely out...,

Wild-Yeast

kneading's picture
kneading

I buy my parchment paper from Trader Joe's..it says unbleached and chlorine free. It says that it does have silicone in it which " is derived from Silcon, a natural

element found in sand, quartz and rock. Silicone is non toxic when incinerated". 

Maeve's picture
Maeve

Norpro is the brand I use, only because I can find the bulk roll easily at a store nearby.  It still claims to be unbleached, but a year or so ago it changed from brown to white, so, I wonder about that.  But it's the only way I can get pizza and ciabatta the way I want it to be.  I use it for cookies too.

EvaB's picture
EvaB

have you ever accidently burned a teflon pot, I have and the fumes were horrendous! I've also burned stainles steel ones, cast iron ones, and even an aluminum one when I had not stopped using aluminum pots. The easiest to clean was the cast one, the stainless steel next and the aluminum was a toss up. The teflon one was totalled!

I don't use teflon pots because I don't like the way the surface goes wonky in under a month, I have several pots in the house, but will go to my stainless steel ones or cast iron ones first!

I also have stainless steel bread pans (several sizes so who needs an adjustable pan) a couple of cast ones, and even some silverstone (a type of teflon I think) but if you are baking rustic artisanal loaves you really don't use pans.

I also prefer a gas stove to electric and a stove to microwave, although that does have a place in my kitchen. My mother mourned the entire time we lived together because her stove wasn't a wood fired one! My grandmother used a kerosene stove (the smell was incredible) and kerosene lights, she lived to be 85, so to did my great grandmother who was 97 and my mother who was 89, I think it has more to do with how much you eat, and what it is you eat over what you cook it on or in. Preferences are just that, and I do like parchment paper, it works well and at the reccomended temps is probably not any more harmful than a bus ride downtown in a large city, or a freeway ride into work! Its all relative!

And everyone dies sooner or later.