The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Doyon vs American Baking Systems

jwilder's picture
jwilder

Doyon vs American Baking Systems

I'm lucky enough to be moving into a new, larger bakery space and am able to custom-design my new kitchen. Right now I'm a start-up bakery that outgrew my home kitchen, so I rented a space that has 3 home-use ovens - no commercial stuff. With  my new space I want commercial ovens, and I'm stumped. I've no idea where to begin. I've heard that standard convection ovens are really hard on breads and pastries (90% of what I produce), so I'm wary of convection. What I know I need is a deck oven unit to handle multiple items at a time - pastry, bread, muffins, etc, with steam inject in at least one, and separate controls on all decks. 

I've heard Doyon has some kind of air flow system that's supposed to gentler? And I've also heard Doyon is notorious for problems and very unhelpful in the customer service department. Any truth to either of these claims? Has anyone ever used a Doyon oven? How does it compare to more common brands?

I'm also looking into American Baking Systems. They're much more reasonably priced than Doyon, but again, I've never baked on any of their equipment. How does it compare to Doyon? Better, worse, average? 

Are there any other brands I should consider? Any particular details I should be looking for? 

Also, on home-use ranges there's a marked difference between gas and electric ovens. Is that the case with commercial ovens as well? Is gas preferred? I have the option to have the builder run gas, or not if I don't need it, however it's a significant expense. 

Thanks so much for all the advice!

ananda's picture
ananda

Hello jwilder,

How exciting for you to be moving into your own purpose-built bakery!

I'm UK based, so am not able to offer full advice on your questions about Doyon and ABS.   It looks to me that ABS ovens are solid and reliable in the manner of Tom Chandley ovens over here in the UK.   The Doyon deck ovens do look lovely pieces of kit.   I did click on the Installation Manual here:

http://www.doyon.qc.ca/imports/pdf/en/artisan.pdf

It appears you install these yourself.   Is that standard practice in the US?   In UK oven manufacturers take responsibility for commissioning the ovens themselves, although all power and water connections have to be in place ready.

If you want deck ovens these work by conduction primarily, through the bottom heat, and radiation from the top heat.   I cannot see any reference to air flow systems on the deck ovens, and it is a feature I do not associate with decks.   Personally, I don't like fan ovens, but that is because I primarily bake artisan breads on the oven sole.

Yes, gas and electric sources of power are very different commercially too.   Again speaking personally, I much prefer electric.   The bottom heat supply from electric is much more solid than from gas.   Oil is a good heating source!   Gas is my preferred option for cooking on the stove top.   It may be worth having a gas supply installed if you are going to be cooking as well as baking.

Good luck with the venture!

Best wishes

Andy

PastryPaul's picture
PastryPaul

We have deck ovens and doyon convections, with a carrousel on the way. It seems to be a matter of taste as to which is preferred. My personal preference for all-around use is the convection oven. Pastries, cheesecakes, and breads all come out fine, provided you remember to flip them around halfway through the bake.

I like the convection oven's high load for a small footprint, and the ease of pulling pans in and out. Even a 6-sheet pan convection can pump out a significant amount of product. However, I am looking forward to the carousel's delivery. I haven't used one since pastry school, but our volume was never high enough to warrant one.

If I can pass along a very valuable piece of wisdom that was passed to me years ago... Get the smallest oven that will do the job.

Cheers and Good Luck!

 

JustinB's picture
JustinB

I don't know if this helps, but we use a ABS-200 Spiral Mixer in our bakery and have never had any problems with it :) Have made 400# batches and it can handle it all. I've had a lot of experience with other commercial mixer brands too, but ABS was my fave. I know you are looking at ovens (never used an ABS one, only Paviller and TMB), but their mixers are freakin' awesome quality.

paneman's picture
paneman

Hello,

I am opening a new Artisan Bread Company in Florida. I am running a new ABS spiral 80 and ABS 3 pan 4 deck oven. I am a Exec Pastry Chef of 27 years of big 4 and 5 diamond resorts. I have a ton of experience with many deck ovens. I would have to say that the current deck ovens that ABS are turning out right now are hands down, AWESOME! I bake at 450F on top heat and 425 on bottom heat. I get the most beautiful burnished deep brown color, just what Im looking for. 45 minute bake for 24 oz levain loaves, no turning the loaves during baking. This oven was 19,000 delivered and set up. Cannot beat the deal and quality. heavy duty build. wonderfully even bake, no burnt bottoms and under-baked sides, wow, just fabulous! just to give you an idea on how dependable these are, Disney has Many of these same ovens and continues to install them around their venues. Believe me, the deep pockets that Disney has, they can buy anything they want. 

 

nsxbill's picture
nsxbill

I have an opportunity to pick up one of several ABS spiral mixers that a commercial operation has for sale at a ridiculous price.  I live fairly close to the bay area, and only have to drive about an hour to have them load into the back of my truck. What is the reputation of ABS Spiral Mixers, and is there an availability of attachment to use smaller bowls on a 60 qt model?  Do I have to only get a 30Qt bowl, or the bowl, center blade and hook?

Thanks

Bill M 

len@randland.com's picture
len@randland.com

I can't speak to other brands, but I can heartily endorse ABS products and (especially) customer service! I have been using their equipment for 4 years. The quality and (most importantly) work product is fantastic. Over these years I have had the inevitable issues (all quite minor). Their responsiveness with parts and advice is impeccable. I'm quite comfortable working on my own equipment and they have been unbelievably helpful with verbal coaching and photos to help with location and R & R of parts.

We have recently established a not-for -profit community kitchen to supply 200 meals per day to low income youth. We have purchased and installed their equipment there based on my experience with them.

varda's picture
varda

Hi,  I have a three deck ABS gas deck oven.   While I think it is a good oven (I have never used another bakery oven so don't have anything to compare it to) it has not been problem free, and there are a few things to look out for.   If you would like to get into more details please message me.   I wonder how many people on Fresh Loaf use deck ovens and what they think of the various models.