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Transcript of March 2012 #BreadChat (from Twitter)

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bagel_and_rye

Transcript of March 2012 #BreadChat (from Twitter)

New for 2012, #BreadChat is a Twitter discussion hour for bakers of yeasted, artisanal breads. The chat is hosted by Chicago Amateur Bread Bakers (@AmateurBakers on Twitter).

At the March 14, 2012 #BreadChat, we were fortunate to co-host with Eric Duhamel (@EricFrenchBaker), Master Baker at Daylesford Organic.

During #BreadChat, @AmateurBakers and @EricFrenchBaker led the discussion through a handful of questions related to yeasted bread baking. It was a wonderful, wild ride, as Eric introduced us to a number of concepts: folding versus kneading to develop gluten structure, autolysis, oxidation, and long fermentation being especially important when using whole meals.

Below is the transcript (note: it reads from bottom to top, Twitter-style). Keep an eye out for the word "organoleptic" :-)

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers Hi @simonaskitchen ! Check out the #BreadChat page http://www.amateurbakers.org/p/breadchat.html In reply to simona'skitchen

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @paulylioja "I just missed #BreadChat! Let me know when the next one happens. Looks like a good crowd too. Great idea." Will do! #BreadChat In reply to Paul Ylioja

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker Good night, Eric! Speak to you soon. Thank you again for co-hosting #BreadChat In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @CarlosZenteno @EricFrenchBaker Fun that the chat overflows 3pm cutoff (Chicago time, that is) #BreadChat We'll certainly be back in April! In reply to Carlos Zenteno

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker Have a good evening/afternoon. Thanks again for this nice chat. #BreadChat

 

Paul Ylioja ‏ @paulylioja @AmateurBakers Ah damn, I just missed #BreadChat! Let me know when the next one happens. Looks like a good crowd too. Great idea.

 

Carlos Zenteno ‏ @CarlosZenteno @EricFrenchBaker #breadchat Thanks Eric, will experiment both ways and hopefully will see you next month around here! In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @CarlosZenteno You can also make your poolish in the fridge. Then, the cold will stabilise it and it's easier. #BreadChat In reply to Carlos Zenteno

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @CarlosZenteno When it starts to sink in the middle, it's definitely time to use it. After, it's too late. #BreadChat In reply to Carlos Zenteno

 

Carlos Zenteno ‏ @CarlosZenteno When do we know that a poolish is ready to be added to the dough? #breadchat

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @MortalGreenWhim Welcome! We're just wrapping up. No worries, we'll post a full transcript later. There will be another #BreadChat in April. In reply to Sonya Handle

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers Sadly, I will have to leave you very soon... :-( #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

Danny Kibbey ‏ @MrDannyKibbey @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker @OnBlank @CarlLegge @ThePhoenixBaker @CarlosZenteno @J_Morera Shame to make it late...thanks all #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers Everyone's welcome to stay and continue the chat. Continue to mark tweets with #BreadChat to include them in the transcript (posted later).

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers That was a nice chat. Thanks for participating. #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

Sonya Hundal ‏ @MortalGreenWhim @EricFrenchBaker Slow- fermentation is a wonderful thing. Houses tend to be warmer than trad bakeries so a fridge is a great aid #BreadChat In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers We're fortunate to have @EricFrenchBaker as #BreadChat co-host today. Thank you, Master Baker Eric Duhamel, for introducing us to new topics

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers That's all for this month! Stay tuned for April's #BreadChat to be announced soon! Email questions in advance to breadchat@amateurbakers.org

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @MrDannyKibbey 3 days... You need a few more and a few refreshments before to use it and make a nice loaf. #BreadChat In reply to Danny Kibbey

 

Danny Kibbey ‏ @MrDannyKibbey @EricFrenchBaker I know...unfortunately all of my pets died as a child, as do most of my leavens :( #BreadChat In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker @OnBlank @CarlLegge @ThePhoenixBaker @MrDannyKibbey @CarlosZenteno @J_Morera Thank you for participating in #BreadChat !

 

Danny Kibbey ‏ @MrDannyKibbey @AmateurBakers 3 days...just got quite scared by the science being thrown around here...molecular baking :) #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @ThePhoenixBaker You can also use a stone-grounded flour made with the whole grain (many millers remove the germ in the process). #BreadChat In reply to Aidan and Lisa

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @GingerbreadBake Great to know you're listening in! Welcome! #BreadChat In reply to Gingerbread Bakery

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @MrDannyKibbey When you start to grow your leaven, you start to take care of a new pet. ;-) #BreadChat In reply to Danny Kibbey

 

Sonya Hundal ‏ @MortalGreenWhim @AmateurBakers Been out in the bakehouse. What have I missed???? #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

Gingerbread Bakery ‏ @GingerbreadBake Loving #BreadChat I can't contribute much but it's a good read.

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @OnBlank Pre-heating your oven is always essential for a good result. #BreadChat In reply to Kristina

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @OnBlank We don't bother with sheet of parchment under the lid, perhaps it depends on the weight of the lid? Ours is very heavy. #BreadChat In reply to Kristina

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @ThePhoenixBaker Too little salt will increase the gluten net structuration by increasing oxydation phenomenons. #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

Aidan and Lisa ‏ @ThePhoenixBaker @EricFrenchBaker flavour coming from fermentation add extra wheatgerm to dough to help with great colour of the bread #breadchat In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

Danny Kibbey ‏ @MrDannyKibbey @amateurbakers Thanks...got my starter just starting to show signs of life in the kitchen. #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

Kristina ‏ @OnBlank @AmateurBakers Preheat! Brilliant. Do you bother with a sheet of parchment to go under the lid for more airtight-ness? #breadchat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker @ThePhoenixBaker Can too little salt disrupt gluten formation? This came up at our last "Taste-and-Tell" meeting #BreadChat In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

Carl Legge ‏ @CarlLegge @AmateurBakers Why thanks :) #breadchat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @MrDannyKibbey Welcome to #BreadChat ! In reply to Danny Kibbey

 

Kristina ‏ @OnBlank @CarlLegge Carl...that's gorgeous! I do the sandwich bread with a small pot of boiled water but had no idea you could go that far #breadchat In reply to Carl Legge

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @ThePhoenixBaker You're going very low in salt but, indeed, if you like low salted breads, you can get something very nice. #BreadChat In reply to Aidan and Lisa

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @CarlLegge Gorgeous bread, thank you for sharing a photo! #BreadChat In reply to Carl Legge

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @ThePhoenixBaker No more than 20 g of salt per kg of flour ; 17 max. is even better. #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @OnBlank Heat Dutch oven in your oven, as you pre-heat. Put loaf in hot Dutch oven, water evaporates from loaf and steams crust #BreadChat

 

Aidan and Lisa ‏ @ThePhoenixBaker @AmateurBakers 1% maximum #breadchat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

Danny Kibbey ‏ @MrDannyKibbey RT @thephoenixbaker: Low yeast, low salt, long fermentation creates maximum flavour! #breadchat No maxim for life, but not far off!

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @ThePhoenixBaker Low salt is interesting as you will be searching for more delicate flavours. #BreadChat In reply to Aidan and Lisa

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers @OnBlank Steam is essential ! You can throw a few ice cubes while loading your loaf in your oven. #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @ThePhoenixBaker What % salt do you suggest? #BreadChat In reply to Aidan and Lisa

 

Carl Legge ‏ @CarlLegge @OnBlank At the risk of doing same, the answer is yes. This from domestic oven w/ tray of water http://www.carllegge.com/2012/03/felin-ganol-amaretto-flour-sourdough-bread/ #breadchat In reply to Kristina

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @OnBlank This depends on the quality of your oven mainly. Anyway, it's always more difficult than with a professional oven. #BreadChat In reply to Kristina

 

Aidan and Lisa ‏ @ThePhoenixBaker Sponge and dough method for yeasted breads #breadchat

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @OnBlank Yes, it is! The secret, in my experience, is steam. Try baking a loaf inside a hot (+450F) Dutch oven with a tight lid. #BreadChat In reply to Kristina

 

Aidan and Lisa ‏ @ThePhoenixBaker Low yeast, low salt, long fermentation creates maximum flavour! #breadchat

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers A good way for using less yeast and create a good taste is to use a pre-fermentation method. #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

Kristina ‏ @OnBlank #breadchat At the risk of breaching Twitter chat protocol, is it possible to get a great crust in a home oven?

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @OnBlank Baker's yeast didn't exist in a commercial way 300 years ago. Bread was made exclusively with leaven at this time.#BreadChat In reply to Kristina

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers Our amateur bakers practice using as little yeast as possible, then adjusting time & temperature, and watching the dough closely. #BreadChat

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker To increase the fermentation time you can use the fridge over night. It's also an easy way to get a fresh loaf in the morning.#BreadChat

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker Many bread formulas/recipes call for an usually large and unnecessary amount of yeast. #BreadChat In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

Kristina ‏ @OnBlank @EricFrenchBaker See, I thought it was made with the live starter AND yeast. Much to learn... #breadchat In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers You can use indeed a low yeast rate or/and a lower temperature. #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers For those of you just joining us here at #BreadChat, a short description of what we're about: http://www.amateurbakers.org/p/breadchat.html

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers Make sure to mark each of your tweets with #BreadChat, so everyone can follow the discussion.

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @OnBlank When I talk about sourdough, I talk about natural leaven, not yeasted fermented dough. Many people are confused on this. #BreadChat

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers Q3: Which techniques do you use to extend the fermentation time of dough & create flavor? Do you use as little yeast as possible? #BreadChat

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers Let's move on to question 3 #BreadChat

 

Carl Legge ‏ @CarlLegge @EricFrenchBaker Merci Eric :) #breadchat In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @CarlLegge @EricFrenchBaker Making me hungry #BreadChat In reply to Carl Legge

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @OnBlank Welcome to #BreadChat, Kristina! All bakers--amateurs and professionals--are welcome here. We can learn from one another #BreadChat In reply to Kristina

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @OnBlank Don't worry, sourdough is not needed to make long fermentation. Anyway, if you try, you'll see that it's catchy. #BreadChat In reply to Kristina

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @CarlLegge Excellent method ! #BreadChat In reply to Carl Legge

 

Carl Legge ‏ @CarlLegge @EricFrenchBaker Then fold approx hourly at 3/4 hours. Normally retaard o'night in fridge b4 bake :) #breadchat In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker I'm guessing it's for convenience, and so bakeries can make large quantities of bread. Can you tell us more? #BreadChat

 

Kristina ‏ @OnBlank #Breadchat Holy cow. This is less amateur than I was expecting. I do sandwich bread weekly but haven't even tried a real sourdough.

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @ThePhoenixBaker Welcome to #BreadChat ! In reply to Aidan and Lisa

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @ThePhoenixBaker Long fermentation is actually very important when you use flours rich in fibers like wholemeal. #BreadChat In reply to Aidan and Lisa

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker mentioned before, modern wheats are selected for mechanical & bread making properties over digestibility. Why? #BreadChat

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers Yes, it's partially true. It helps also the hydration of the ingredients. #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @CarlLegge @CarlosZenteno Welcome to #BreadChat !

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker Hello to the new participants. #BreadChat

 

Aidan and Lisa ‏ @ThePhoenixBaker @AmateurBakers long fermentation breads much kinder to the digestion system! No bloating! #breadchat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers Autolysis is a method breaking down some of the starch and protein in the flour #BreadChat

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @CarlLegge Then, after the autolysis, you knead your bread by folding it several times. For you, put the yeast at the beginning. #BreadChat

 

Carlos Zenteno ‏ @CarlosZenteno #BreadChat Can I make an all purpose flour a high gluten flour by adding Gluten?

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker The autolysis is the fact to mix your ingredients, except the yeast or the leaven and leave them to rest for 30 min or more. #BreadChat

 

Carl Legge ‏ @CarlLegge @EricFrenchBaker Indeed usually use a 30 min autolysis #Breadchat Bonsoir all :) In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

Jordi Morera Ransanz ‏ @J_Morera @AmateurBakers Of course. The breads with long fermentation are more digest for us. The enzymes and the yeasts work about starch #breadchat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @CarlLegge You can use the folding technique, indeed, as well as the autolysis. #BreadChat In reply to Carl Legge

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker So, we can say that a long fermentation, especially with a natural leaven, makes the bread usually more digestible. #BreadChat

 

Jordi Morera Ransanz ‏ @J_Morera @EricFrenchBaker And an special fermentation with folds. For me don't be necessary adding gluten #breadchat In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

Carl Legge ‏ @CarlLegge @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers I can't knead because of arthritis in wrists. Make all my sourdough w/ folding only :) #breadchat In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers Long fermentation starts the process of digestion (fermentation is the way of the yeast's metabolism). #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @JessicaAFisher You are most welcome to join us Chicago Amateur Bread Bakers. We can chat more about it after #BreadChat In reply to DinnerAroundtheTable

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers Welcome to #BreadChat @JessicaAFisher ! In reply to DinnerAroundtheTable

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers We could say that added gluten would make the bread harder to digest. #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers Organoleptic (adj) related to aspects of food and other substances as experienced by the senses: taste, sight, smell, and touch #BreadChat

 

DinnerAroundtheTable ‏ @JessicaAFisher Wish I could be part of @AmateurBakers #BreadChat! #booninetofive #breadobsession

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers You can replace a part of the kneading by some folding of the dough during the fermentation. #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers Q2: How digestible are breads with added gluten versus those without? Does long fermentation make these breads more digestible? #BreadChat

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers Let's move on to question 2 #BreadChat

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @J_Morera Using Extensive kneading usually degrades the ingredients and, so, the organoleptic properties of the bread. #BreadChat In reply to Jordi Morera Ransanz

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker It's usually better to improve the skills rather than using "improvers". ;-) #BreadChat Well said, Eric! In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker Ways to develop gluten: kneading, or long fermentation, or adding gluten :-) Anything else? #BreadChat In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

Jordi Morera Ransanz ‏ @J_Morera @AmateurBakers Machine mixing can strengthen gluten with a correct period. But in excess can be injurious, sure. #breadchat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers It's usually better to improve the skills rather than using "improvers". ;-) #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @J_Morera We started with our first question . . . #BreadChat

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers Indeed, adding gluten is often a trick for low skilled bakers (and too often professionals). #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers It's true that a slow/long fermentation helps to form a better gluten net. #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers Welcome @J_Morera ! #BreadChat In reply to Jordi Morera Ransanz

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker "Gluten helps to make kneading easier" Interesting, good for those of us who like to knead, but aren't so strong #BreadChat In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

Jordi Morera Ransanz ‏ @J_Morera @AmateurBakers hello from barcelona! We should to know us and this is a great idea #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker But I bake at home. In a commercial bakery, you use a mixer. Can machine mixing over-strengthen gluten? #BreadChat

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker That is true. I don't add gluten. Instead, I tend to let time do the work: slow fermentation develops the gluten #BreadChat In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers First, the gluten helps to make the kneading easier. #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers The question is quite wide and the answer can be as wide... :-) #BreadChat In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers Q1: Adding gluten to dough: How does it influence dough behavior during fermentation, shaping? How does it affect the baked loaf? #BreadChat

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker and we will kick off the discussion with question 1 #BreadChat

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers For those of you just joining us here at #BreadChat, a short description of what we're about: http://www.amateurbakers.org/p/breadchat.html

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers We have some questions submitted in advance by bakers, & we'll start with those in a few minutes #BreadChat

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker @AmateurBakers #BreadChat Welcome and good evening or afternoon (or night in Australasia) In reply to ChicagoAmateurBakers

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @TomArtisanBaker We'll miss you Tom. Sleep well. #BreadChat In reply to Tom Harding

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers We're here with our co-host, Eric Duhamel @EricFrenchBaker #BreadChat

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers Say hello when you come online, everyone #BreadChat

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers @EricFrenchBaker Welcome to #BreadChat everyone. #BreadChat, the discussion hour for bakers of artisanal, yeasted breads. In reply to Eric Duhamel

 

Eric Duhamel ‏ @EricFrenchBaker #BreadChat Ready ! ;-)

 

Tom Harding ‏ @TomArtisanBaker #BreadChat Sorry guys, now going to bed. Big day tomorrow. You know how it is...

 

ChicagoAmateurBakers ‏ @AmateurBakers #BreadChat starts in 5 minutes

 

 

JeremyCherfas's picture
JeremyCherfas

Or did I already miss it?

LindyD's picture
LindyD

Check the home page column on the left and you'll see the announcement thread.  :-)

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/28237/breadchat-tune-april-18

JeremyCherfas's picture
JeremyCherfas

Will try to be there!