The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Chad Robertson's Country SD - Modified

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Chad Robertson's Country SD - Modified

Isand66 (Ian) has been using a much greater percentage of starter/Levain in his recent SD breads.  As I was looking around for a place to start with this idea, I ran across Chad Robertson's Country SD that uses this same technique.  I also prefer at least 10% rye and WW in the finished loaf and wanted to make sure that was the case in this bread.  I also wanted a higher hydration dough and one that had more AP flour and less bread flour.   This bread sure looks good on the outside but I can't cut into it yet until my wife gives the OK since she is taking it into work tomorrow.  I'm hoping the crumb is fairly open this time - and it was fairly airy.  It was also delicious, especially toasted with butter.  This one is a keeper!

 Chad's Sourdough - Modified - makes 1 large boule

Levain Build - Two days before bake day

  • 82 g starter @ 100% hydration (50% rye and 50% WW)
  • 45 g bread flour
  • 60 g rye flour
  • 60 g WW flour
  • 125 g water

Mix and ferment for 6  hours at 68 F and the refrigerate overnight

Noon -  before bake day

  • 370 g starter @ 75% hydration (all from above)
  • 185 g bread flour
  • 185 AP flour
  • 280 g water
  • 14 g salt

Mix all except salt for 2 minutes on KA 1 and autolyse for 1 hour. Then add salt and mix on KA 3 for 4 minutes.  Move to an oiled bowl and let rest 30 minutes.  Do 10 S&F's in the bowl and let rest 30 minutes.  Do 5 S&F's in theowl and let rest 30 minutes.  Do 1 S&F on a floured bench, return to the oiled bowl and let rest 30 minutes.   Do 1 more S&F on a floured bench and form into a ball, return to the oiled bowl and let rest 1 hour.  Retard dough overnight.    The dough will rise about 10-20% in the fridge.

Remove from fridge and let rest on counter for 1 hour.  Do 1 S&F gently  and do final shape into a boule.  Make sure to tighten the skin properly.  Place in cloth and floured bennaton and let rise in a plastic trash can liner for 2 hours. 

One hour before boule is proofed, heat oven to 500 with stone and steaming apparatus in place.  Remove boule from benetton onto parchment lined peel and put in the oven.  After 2 minutes turn down oven to 450 F .  After 15 minutes total, remove steaming apparatus and bake at 400F convection for  another 15- 25 minutes until the temp hits 205 F in the center of the boule.  Turn off oven and  left bread sit on the stone with the oven door ajar for 10 more minutes.  Remove bread to cooling rack until completely cool.

Comments

Toad.de.b's picture
Toad.de.b

Well, if it isn't, you have a right to make it so. 

Is it too much to ask one's spouse to snap a crumb shot for you?

At least to supply a flavor report.  Looks terrific.

That final cool-down still on the stone in the oven -- that doesn't dry it out too much?

tdb

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

positive I will get a crumb shot and taste later this afternoon. Or, she will have to take some other bread to work :-)  It sure smells good though.  The 10 minutes left in the oven with oven off and door ajar just makes the crust crunchy crisp.   Many TFL'ers use this technique for their SD and other breads.  The temp went from 204 F to 206 F on this loaf which is nearly 2 lbs after baking. 

What the heck, I'll be right back.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

and said that she was bringing home half the loaf from her work soiree.  She said they told her it good but was some kind of sourdough and wanted to know what grains were in  it.  She had no idea.  At least they liked it enough to eat a pound of bread between 8 of them and i get the other pound :-)

varda's picture
varda

That looks nice.   I haven't tried any of Chad Robertson's formulas but I sure see enough nice results posted here.    I was going to complain in your last post that your pictures were out of focus and so hard to look at (I kept my mouth shut until now) and then was glad to see that for this post you had much better luck with the top two anyhow.   Are you trying to shoot close-ups too close for your camera?   Sorry to complain, and I hope you won't take it the wrong way.  -Varda

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

my camera phone, which itself is 3 years old now, is not up to snuff when it comes to macro shots.  If I get too close the pictures are fuzzy, If I get too far away, no details.  So, I do my best with what I have.  Sadly, I used to teach photograph for credit in college and photographed everyone's portfolios in architectural school, but my Mamiya 645, Canon 35 mm and big box cameras are no longer worth much even though they cost thousands of dollars just for the lenses.  I wish I could find a digital camera body that would take my lenses though.    So no worry about complaints.  I hope to get my daughter's new Luminex I got her for Hanukah when she gets tired of it - or possibly she will let me have her old Nikon that took good pictures though it is a couple of years old.  There's an idea.   It this case the loaf was bigger so I could get farther away and it was more focused.

isand66's picture
isand66

DA, looks like you made a winner....your crumb looks excellent and your crust does as well.  I will add this version of yours on my list to try!

P.S. I know you have said in the past you are using your camera phone to take pictures, so all things considered they are not bad.  I happen to be into photography so I have several cameras at my disposal, but I would recommend you bribe your wife to get you a nice camera as a gift with some more of your enticing bread :).

Ian

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

see if I can get my daughters old camera and see how that works.  I got her a new one because she said the old one took fuzzy pictures :-)  I also have the camera I got my wife that she said she didn't like and that one I know takes better pix's too.  You will like this bread when you try it.  It tastes just great and toasted with butter fantastic.  I made some caramelized minneola marmalade yesterday that is to die for and it was great on this bread as a snack.

isand66's picture
isand66

Wow....is there anything you don't make yourself?  I would love to see and taste your recipe.  The description alone sounds great.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

to be easy for me to do something.  Luckily there are very few things in this world that are difficult.  I found myself running low on jam.  I had a dragon fruit /prickly pear cactus tuna jam and a lemon Serrano pepper jam and that was it.  It's not like me to be so low on varieties of jam.  It is also citrus season and I had just made a couple of gallons of limoncello and aranchello, froze a couple gallons of juice from that and it also means it is marmalade time.  I made several jars of regular minneole marmalade and the fabulous caramelized variety (a recipe I invented by accident) and I put up some strawberry/ ginger/apple while I was at it.  here is a pix that shows the regular marmalade on the left and the caramelized on on the right.  The recipe is simple enough.

Take the skins off of about 6 minneolas (no pith) and cut them into thin strips.  Juice about 30 minneolas to get at least 3 pounds of juice.  Peel and cut up in as small a dice as possible 2 apples (this is where the pectin comes from).  In a large heavy bottomed stock pot , bring the skins, minneola juice, apple tiny dice and 1 pound of sugar to a boil and then turn down the heat to a rolling simmer.  Stir constantly once the mixture turns color from a bright orange to a darker orange.  Keep simmering until the water is boiled off  and a jam consistency is achieved.   This will keep a long time in the fridge which is where I keep it.  If you continue simmering, like I do half the mix, stirring all the time until the sugar caramelized to a dark brown color without burning you will have achieved something few on earth have ever seen, much less tasted  - Caramelized Minneola Marmalade  - enjoy 

isand66's picture
isand66

Those sound and look great!  Don't know if I have the patience you have to make that, not to mention I live in NY so I don't have the fruit trees you do.

Thanks for the info.

Ian

Toad.de.b's picture
Toad.de.b

What's your "bread flour" here?  Crumb suggests its somewhat high extraction - definitely not a white bread.   And wow, about half of final is the preferment. Thats a major mod from Robertsons 200/1000. 

Looks tasty. 

Tdb

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

builds 370 g of levain the first day utilizing bread flour and a little bit of starter.  He then uses all the levain 24 hours later with the addition of 370 g of bread flour the second day making a levain of 1,017 g.  Again, 24 hors later, on the 3rd day, this 1,017 g of levain is used with an additional 1,107 g of bread flour with 652 g of water and some salt for the final dough.  So Chad is using equal amounts of levain and flour on days 2 and 3.  I just stopped after day 2 since I didn't want a ton of dough :-)  So this isn't much of a departure from Chad's technique.  isand 66 has been using this same technique of equal levain and flour for his latest SD breads with good results so I thought I would give it a try to see what it was like.  I don't think Ian knew he was following Chad's technique any more than I did.  I just ran across Chad's formula and immediately saw how similar it was to what Ian was doing with his formulas.

I suppose the biggest departure for my version is that I used some home milled rye and WW in thestarter and first day build and subbed some AP for some oif the the bread flour in day 2.  I did this because I think the SD flavor of rye and WW is far superior to any that white flour an accomplish plus I wanted to get less protein of the AP to offset some of the higher protein in the WW and rye to try to balance the protein out an little better.  I used KA bread flour and KA AP for this bread.  I'm not sure what the extraction of KA flours are but the color, texture and taste of the crumb I'm pretty sure comes from the rye and WW berries that I ground and included without any sifting. 

I really like the taste texture and color of this bread a lot.  It doesn't have the huge holes in the crumb but it is plenty soft, light and airy.  I also think Chad and isand66 are on to something with equal parts of levain and flour for the final dough.  With an extra day I'm sure Chad's bread developed more SD flour as well.   The next time I make this bread I will use smaller levain builds and stretch it out over 3 days, like Chad did,  to see what difference that makes with the flavor.

Toad.de.b's picture
Toad.de.b

Wow, thanks dbm.  All this three-day leaven building and final flour's total protein adjustment has this novice's head spinning.  I checked Robertson's book this morning and I'm not sure I see how yours isn't a departure from his technique.  His basic formula adds 200 gr of young leaven to 1000 gr flour in a 75% hyd dough.  Are you referring to some online variation of it?  And I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around this three-day build.  I assume it is done to achieve a flavor objective.  But doesn't the leaven top out (reach stationary phase, in microbiological terms) during each of the first two days, and thus begin to generate acids and other products of dubious flavor value?  Or maybe that's what you're after -- a strong sourdough flavor.

The "equal leaven and flour" idea of building the final dough reminds me of a YouTube I saw of the "other" Poilane (Max is it?) bakery.  First they show a big tub of what I assumed was well fermented dough.  But instead of cutting it into loaf-sized chunks, the man cuts it into huge chunks that he sets into a mixer, on top of which the chute dumps what looks like about an equal amount of flour.  So they build that bread with sort of a grand poolish.

Wish I wasn't on the road this weekend - I'm jonesin' to try some of this approach.  Ah well.

tdb

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I got the recipe from Shia0-Ping's post on TFL 

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/13525/my-imitation-chad-robertson039s-country-sourdough

It was her interpretation of Chad's sourdough before his book came out because in her post she says the book will soon be out.  I just assumed that it was Chad's recipe.  I wasn't reading that closely beside the recipe itself.  Mo matter, Shiao-Ping may be a better baker than Chad from what I have seen :-) I have baked several of her breads and they always turn out great.  Anyway she was the one who came up with the high levains to mimic Chad's Country SD.  I just know it works from the bread isand66 and I have made - along with Shiao-Ping.

It's Friday, so get back home and get that oven fired up!

Toad.de.b's picture
Toad.de.b

Hey dbm,

I've been meaning to get back to you about this "balancing protein" statement you made.  You said,

 "...plus I wanted to get less protein of the AP to offset some of the higher protein in the WW and rye to try to balance the protein out an little better."

What's the deal there?  What "balance" of protein are you aiming for?  Why "balance" protein?  What protein(s)?  I assume this isn't a nutritional issue, but one arising from how "protein balance" affects crumb development (dough elasticity, extensibility, etc.).  So are you using "protein" here as a generic label for gluten-forming proteins (glutelin & gliadin)?  And if so, what's the objective of this protein balancing?

I'm particularly curious now because I scrambled to make a loaf sunday pm/mon after being away for the weekend, that came from a 'mistake mix' of flour I had on the shelf, where I had inadvertantly included about 30% corn flour instead of Golden Buffalo.  I amended the mix with some AP and figured what the heck.  But... worst loaf I've ever made, first ever to go straight to compost (happy raccoons -- they love my corn).  That 30% corn flour contributed zero gluten and the remainding 70% couldn't rescue it.  Rushed use of inappropriately primed starter also contributed I'm sure.  But at least it motivated me to pursue this protein question w/you.

Thanks!

tdb

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

trying to stay closer to the protein content of what I thought was the original bread - only to find out it was Shiao-Ping's.  Nothing more.  I wasn't thinking about gluten at all.  If I wanted more gluten I would left all the bread flour and not added the AP.  By adding rye and WW and increasing the protein content by doing so, I wanted to replace some of the higher protein bread flour with lower protein AP.  Plus I don't like using high cost bread flour when it is not required.  In fact, it is hardly ever required if you develop the gluten in the dough correctly.   I really don't see much need for bread flour and one less high priced flour is better as far as I am concerned. 

I don't know why you had a problem with your corn bread.  At 30% corn it should have had plenty of gluten potential to make a decent bread even if the 70% were AP.  I'm pretty sure my SD recipe has 50% corn flour (not meal) in it and it comes out like a corn bread should (not the sweet southern quick bread) and there is plenty enough glutin to make it rise.  It doesn't have the open crumb with huge holes but it is airy enough.  You do have to knead it a more to deveop the glutin well enough though.