The Fresh Loaf

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Pane al Latte e Cioccolata - Got it right now :-))

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Pane al Latte e Cioccolata - Got it right now :-))

Hi,

I've made the Pane alla Cioccolata fron Carol Field's Italian Baker many times with great success, and I always wanted to try the Pane al Latte e Cioccolata, which brings milk bread and chocolate together.

However, I have some problems with the milk dough recipe from the first edition of the book.

/* UPDATE */

After input from lvbaker I recalculated the formula, and now I have a milk dough with the same hydration level as the chocolate dough. A charm to work with. My adjusted percentages are given below, here some new photos:

The bread on the rise:

The whole loaf:

Detail shot:

Pane alla Cioccolata:

"Sponge": Water 15%, Sugar 0.7%, Instant Yeast 1%

Dough: all of the "Sponge", Flour 100%, Water 47%, Egg Yolk 3%, Butter 3.8% Sugar 20%, Cocoa Powder 5%, Chocolate Chips 25%, Salt 1.6%, Total 222.1%

Pane al Latte

Sponge: Flour 25%, Milk 25%, Sugar 3%, Instant Yeast 0.6%

Dough: All of the sponge, Flour 75%, Milk 25%, Rum 3%, Egg 12%, Butter 10%, Salt 1%, Total 179.6%

/* OLD POST */

But first some photos of this spectacular bread:

The shaped loaves, resting:

After the bake:

Crumb of a third loaf, a braid:

This is very tasty, as you can imagine.

Now to my problem:

The recipe gives for the sponge of the milk dough the following quantities:

1 3/4 teaspoon dry yeast

1 tablespoon sugar

1/4 cup milk

1 cup less 1 tablespoon (135g) flour

Now, this is not enough liquid to hydrate the dough, and it definitely doesn't make the batter it should.

I am kind-of improvising,

but has anyone got the second edition of the Italian Baker? What quantities (% or g) are being used there?

Thanks a lot,

Juergen

 

 

Comments

lvbaker's picture
lvbaker

Hi Juergen,

I have a later version of the book and the sponge recipe calls for one half cup of warm milk.  All other ingredients are as you listed.  Your bread looks spectacular! Will definitely have to give this one a try.

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

I'll try it out.

You'll love it,

Juergen

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Hi lvbaker,

Making the sponge with 1/2 cup of milk makes sense, but the total hydration level is then over the top.

The recipe in my version of the book says for the dough: 1 cup of milk and 1 egg.

If I use 1/2 cup of milk here as well I arrive at the same level as the  chocolate bread.

Would you be so kind to check what your edition has to say?

Thanks a lot,

Juergen

isand66's picture
isand66

Juergen,

Your bread looks amazing.  How does it taste?  Do you taste the chocolate?

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

The bread is not too sweet. The cocolate is clearly there, but not as in chocolate cake.

I can imagine this with some mild Italian cheese, we had it with Wensleydale with cranberries.

 

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Juergen,

  I have never seen a loaf shaped in that checker board type of pattern.  Looks like a fun one to make and tasty to eat.

Another idea for a chocolate loaf.  My kids love anything with chocolate :-)

Thanks for the post and the new idea!

Take Care,

Janet

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Thank you, Janet.

I was thinking for a while about how to make a pleasing pattern with two different doughs ...

The chocolate bread alone looks great as a 2-strand braid and is always a winner.

Best Wishes,

Juergen

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Juergen,

Thanks for the formula for these breads.  I think I will it try out as a braided loaf with a small tweak....regular chocolate chips in the 'white' loaf and white chocolate chips in the chocolate loaf...My kids LOVE chocolate in breads and I haven't used chocolate in a loaf  for awhile.  I also love to braid dough :-)

Take Care,

Janet

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Janet,

The idea of "inverting" the chocolare bits sounds great fun. I think that pure chocolate breads could benefit from that. What I like about this mixed bread is the contrast - smooth, silky, white against dark, stronger flavoured, more uneven texture.

This recipe has lots of space for all sorts of experiments. Carol Field treats the two doughs seperately and brings them together in a third recipe. If you make around 1000g of each dough you would use about 1 egg for the milk loaf and 1 yolk for the chocolate loaf. You also have enough material to make milk buns and small chocolate braids on their own to get a feel for the character of each dough.

I am going to make another one for a charity bake tomorrow evening.

One word about baking: I baked my 100g braid at 180C for about 45 minutes.

Looking forward to hear about your black and white experiments,

Juergen

 

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Hi Juergen,

I was just writing up my recipes when you added this.  I was planning on mixing up only 500g of each dough for the first bake to see how it turns out.

I am use to using wild yeast instead if IY in my loaves so tomorrow I will do the leaven builds throughout the day. In the evening I will mix the final doughs and let both ferment overnight in the refrig.  The braiding and baking will be done on Friday.  I suspect the loaf will be gone by Saturday :-) 

I have made note of the baking temp. you posted too so that helps!

I like the contrast too.  Not only in how the final breads look but in the mixing of the flavors as well.  I am thinking of adding a bit of vanilla extract to the milk dough....

You can see just how much I am tweaking things here....I better stop while my 'planned' loaves somewhat resemble what you have posted :-)  It is just that once I get started....ideas creep in and take over :-0.

Thanks for your help.

Take Care,

Janet

 

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Hi Juergen,

Well here is the result of today's bake based on the formula you posted with my tweaks :-)

    You can see with the uneven fermenting between the 2 doughs....the chocolate ripened at a faster rate.....notes made and I will adjust next bake :-)I choose a 4 strand braid because of the size of the loaf and because I like braiding with 4 strands :-)I baked it too hot so the crust got way too dark.  The over proofed chocolate loaf shows  what results from overproofing.....   This shot shows how the chocolate loaf flattened out a lot more than the latte loaf.Lessons learned:  I think I will try to use the same base dough next time for both loaves so that I have more control over the proofing times.I will try your 2 strand braid so that the 2 colors/textures contrast each other better than they did with my 4 strand.I will drop the baking temp. End Results:  Flavor rules :-)  This was  a 1kg loaf and within 30 minutes of being out of the oven 1/2 had disappeared betweeen the ballerinas ( my 18 year old daughter and her friend) and my 15 year old son.  I suspect it will all be gone before noon tomorrow!I really liked the texture of the 'latte' dough.  It was very easy to work with.  (Chocolate one was sticky and just not as firm so I had to stick it into the freezer for awhile before braiding it.)I used my sour dough as the leavening for both with about .5g-1g IY added to try to help control and balance the proofing rate....so much for control :-)
Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

as you say!

Janet, your braid looks great, I like the look of the milk dough crumb. Very promising. You are using WG flour, is that right?

I am off on holiday for 2 weeks now and am not sure how much I can folloow TFL, but I really look forward to seeing more of your tweaks!

Juergen

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Hi Juergen,

Yes, I used hard white whole wheat flour that I mill.

 Daughter really liked the milk loaf flavor too - I added some vanilla extract to it and she liked the flavor it added.  Her comment on the chocolate loaf was that she LOVES chocolate but when I add chocolate powder to a dough it gives the loaf a bitter flavor.  She liked this combination because the milk loaf was the dominant flavor.  She liked that I used chocolate chunks because more of the chocolate flavor comes through....chips are just too small and blend in so get lost in the end.

My husband did get a bit of this bread. He doesn't usually like loaves with chocolate in them but he really liked this one.

The loaf is gone :-)

Enjoy your holiday!  

Janet

varda's picture
varda

I love the way the dough looks in the top picture.   Really nice braid.   I admit to somewhat of a lack of affection for chocolate in bread, but the color combo is really cool.  -Varda

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Varda, for your kind words.

On our UK gathering I had some of Lumos' cocoa miche with walnuts and cranberries, a most amazing taste. I brought some back home, and it spread via my wife into my son's school and got quite famous there.

This reminded me of Carol Field's Pane alla Cioccolata.

The one response you get here is "But it is not too sweet". The chocolate is there, but not in an overpowering way.

And apart from that, it's just a pleasure to work with DOUGH for a change as opposed to the usual PASTE ;-)

The current bake is a collective order from a bunch of 5-year olds...

Juergen

varda's picture
varda

Juergen, I asked my son what type of cake he wanted for his 12th birthday and he said chocolate cake with chocolate frosting.   My daughter's 25th was a month later, and I asked her what she wanted.   Chocolate cake with chocolate frosting.    Of course I complied with both requests.   Given your comments about the lack of sweetness, perhaps I should expand my horizons and try some chocolate bread.   -Varda

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

It certainly is not cake, and it has a simple egg wash, not a frosting.

It is neutral enough to go with mild cheese, but is very nice just with butter and a cup of tea.

Try it out. Even if you don't like it, I can assure you, people around you will ask for more.

Juergen

By the way, my wife loves chocolate fudge cake and the like, but also the pane alla cioccolate

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

That looks delicious! The crumb is so open and soft looking in the braid section photo...Hope the 5-year olds enjoyed this!

Best wishes, Daisy

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Hi Daisy,

Good to hear from you.

The crumb is as you describe it - airy and soft, and if you tear pieces away they come off in this flaky way. Very enjoyable.

Juergen

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Hello Juergen,
As I was looking at the picture of your beautiful braided loaf, I thought of my niece and how much she would like a chocolate/milk bread like that...and then read you were baking for little ones :^) ... the kids must have loved it!
The contrasting doughs are very pretty, and the little bits of chocolate peeking out look very enticing.
It looks like the two doughs had very similar texture, working out very well for your braid - really lovely.
:^) from breadsong

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

They (and their parents) really liked it.

Thank you, breadsong. Your comments are highly appreciated. It is really fun to make, now that I got the formula right.

Best is to start whith both sponges. The milk sponge needs about 45 min, that is enough time to mix the chocolate bread.

I did a bit of kneading, then cutting in the chocolate chips, then 3 stretch & folds. The chocolate bread needs a longer proof.

After the chocolate chips are incorporated and the dough is in a bowl to proof it's time to mix the milk bread.

I used about 90 min proof with one stretch & fold.

The two doughs were both on the spot for shaping with this method.

Thanks again,

Juergen

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Hello Juergen,
Thanks for your reply  :^) 
I tried a two-strand twist with different doughs last year, and it was a challenge achieving equivalent dough consistency, and timing things so both doughs were ready at the same time. 
I certainly agree, your two doughs were 'on the spot' -  and a really gorgeous braid as a result!
Thank you for your notes on timing...I will note in my copy of Ms. Field's book.
:^) breadsong

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Chocolate bread has to be good.  I cannot say I've ever had a chocolate anything that wasn't good enough to finish eating and I'm guessing this bread will be wolfed down like no business.  What a great bread.  I also like the chips in each that Janetcook was envisioning but  then white chocolate chips probably would add much.  That would be the place to put Walnuts !!  What else can we sneak in your bread?

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Have you ever heard of Gubana?

This is a sweet bread they make in the Friuli area of italy, stuffed with loads of nuts - pine and others. It is not just an easter cake -  as Carol Field says - at least in the town of Cividale di Friuli they make and sell it all year round.

I have been there about 20 years ago, and my culinary encounters with the local cuisine were among the most memorable, above all the Gubana which I think was the most delicious thing I ever tasted.

In Cividale there is one road where most of the small Gubana bakeries are located, probably following the outline of the old town wall. I entered that road and got immedialy intoxicated by the smell of baking Gubana with their rich nut fillings, and Grappa.

Gubana is on my list to bake, and Carol Field's recipe looks pretty good. It doesn't mention the drizzle with Grappa, and the time to mature the Gubana.

Juergen