The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Accidental Rapid-Rise Yeast in Overnight Cold Rise...

okallixti's picture
okallixti

Accidental Rapid-Rise Yeast in Overnight Cold Rise...

Hi there,

I am new to the site and looking forward to getting some good bread-baking advice from everyone.

I make challah every week for Shabbos, using a variation of Reinhart's method where the dough is refrigerated at least overnight or as much as four days. This time, however, I had to prepare the dough with rapid-rise yeast as that's what I'd accidentally purchased at the store. I used slightly hotter water than usual once I realized, but otherwise proceeded as usual and stuck the kneaded dough in the fridge last night. When I checked it this morning, it hadn't risen to its usual glorious heights. Is there anything I can do (will it recover when I take it out of the fridge for additional rises and baking tomorrow), or do I just need to chuck it, buy normal yeast, and start all over?


Thanks in advance for your help,

Oli

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

"I used slightly hotter water than usual...."

How hot is slightly hotter?  Too hot and you would have killed the yeast. 

What yeast do you normally use? 

Assuming that you did not kill the yeast and everything else is the same, I would think that this dough should rise.

Jeff

noonesperfect's picture
noonesperfect

Rapid Rise is pretty much the same as Instant Dry Yeast, although I believe there are more live yeast cells in a given volume in the Rapid Rise.  If you were using IDY before, you should be getting the same results with the Rapid Rise.  What type of yeast do you normally use?

 

brad

okallixti's picture
okallixti

Ah, apologies: I should've specified that I ordinarily use active dry yeast. I heated the water to slightly less than 120, as I'd heard instant yeast likes higher temps. I did, however, mix the yeast in with the water-- of course only later remembering that instant yeast is generally mixed with the dry ingredients.

I won't be home to check on the dough for another 9 hours, though I suspect if it hasn't risen remarkably by then I should chuck it and start again. But am I correct in inferring from yr comments that refrigerating the dough isn't what caused this potentially- weird outcome? Thanks!

plevee's picture
plevee

Just add more yeast and a few drops of water, knead to incorporate and let it rise as usual. No need to discard. 

Patsy

noonesperfect's picture
noonesperfect

I tend to let the yeast get a head start before putting dough in the fridge since the 40f temperature in my fridge pretty much stops the yeast activity after an hour or two.  It's possible the Rapid Rise needed more time to work before you started the overnight retardation.  Other than that, and assuming you treated this dough the same way you treated the dough containing ADY, the refrigeration should not have made a difference. 

 

brad

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

You are mixing with water that is too hot and likely killed the yeast.  I would not use water  hotter than 110°F for any yeast.  Also, I have never heard of instant yeast prefering a higher temperature than another yeast.

I mix with water that is between room temperature and about 95°F, no hotter.

Jeff

mredwood's picture
mredwood

Work more yeast and water as suggested.  And be glad you got instant. Should work beautifully.

okallixti's picture
okallixti

Thank you everyone for the great tips. When it comes to incorporating more yeast and water, what amounts are we talking? I was thinking one packet of yeast to 1/2 c. very-warm (but not too hot) water. Should I reincorporate the proper yeast/water mixture and stick it back in the fridge to continue developing?

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

Your water need not be very warm.  Slightly warmer than room temperature or just at room temperature is fine.  Yeast works best at about 76-78°F and does not need or want hot water. 

I have no idea what the quantity or quality is of the dough you are dealing with.   One half of a packet of yeast in a few ounces of water could be worked into the dough.

Jeff

plevee's picture
plevee

 It might take a bit longer to rise, but it will. Been there, done this - along with almost every other possible mistake!

Patsy

okallixti's picture
okallixti

Great, thanks. I am working with ~4 cups flour, 4 egg yolks, etc. It is not a massive amount of dough, thankfully. I will try the yeast suggestion when I get home.

plevee's picture
plevee

I would probably add a whole sachet of yeast.

Patsy

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

Since there has already been a long cold stretch, the enzymes in the flour have likely done their work toward boosting the flavor.  There is no need for further refrigeration. Take your dough, flatten and stretch it out to a largish square. Take care not to tear it, but if you do, simply pinch it back together.

Your recipe has 500 to 600 grams of flour, and since we want to give the rise a kick, about 1.5% by weight of  instant/rapid/bread-machine yeast should be enough. That's 7.5 to 9 grams, or call it two tsp. (~8g.) Sprinkle the yeast evenly over ⅔ of the stretched out dough. Mist with water. Fold the un-yeasted third over half the yeasted side, then complete the letter fold. Turn ninety degrees and do another letter fold. Rest for ten minutes or so, then repeat. A total of four double folds will create over 6000 layers of yeast in the dough.

Let rise at a comfy temp, 75-80℉, until double the original size. Degas, scale and shape. Proof until ¾ finished (poke test), and bake.

cheers,

gary

okallixti's picture
okallixti

Hi Gary, Thanks for such precise instructions-- unfortunately I got them after I'd already incorporated ~2t yeast in ~1/8c. h20 into the (seemingly quite glutinous) dough. So now I've got a fairly wet dough, on its first double fold. I hope all is not lost!

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Jeff is right, 120 F/49 C is way too hot!

And all these concerns about rapid rise/instant yeast and cold retardation are not at all necessary. I always use instant yeast, do not use warm water, do not let the dough rise first at room temperature, but place it in the fridge right away after mixing - or S & F - depending on the kind of breads I make.

If the dough doesn't rise enough overnight I let it come to room temperature and give it some more time to rise. That is usually necessary for Pain a l'Ancienne, most other doughs are done rising when I take them out, and only have to warm up.

Karin

heidifuss's picture
heidifuss

What happened - I am on tenterhooks?

okallixti's picture
okallixti

It still looked pretty funny (very stretchy like seitan dough but not very risen) and I couldn't stay up all night with it after it hadn't risen much in >2 hours, so I stuck it in the fridge and decided to bake it in the a.m and DDR what happens. It's in the oven now and it actually looks like it's rising, b"h, but we'll see! I may have to run out for more flour and yeast for another batch just in case...

Thanks again for all the guidance!