The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Attention All Bialy Bakers, need lots of input

  • Pin It
hlieboff59's picture
hlieboff59

Attention All Bialy Bakers, need lots of input

For the past year, I've been trying to make Bialys following lots of recipes from here and other internet sites. The final product didn't even look similar to what the pro's make. Then almost all hope given up, I found a recipe on artisanbreadbaking.com and decided to give it one more try and bingo...success!!! After carefully examining the most important aspect...ratio % of bread to flour. All my tries, I remember the % ranged from 40-54% and the final product was failure!! The recipe from artisanbreadbaking.com was 60% and when I took them out of the oven, I was jumping for joy like a little school boy. And boy did I get compliments left and right from family members and people at work. Just had one for breakfast here at work toasted. yum!

I would love to hear from people that make bialys here and what ratio % (water to flour) they were successful with.

 

thomaschacon's picture
thomaschacon (not verified)

Hamelman in Bread uses a 58% hydration dough made with high gluten bread flour.

I haven't made them myself, so that's all I can contribute to the discussion.

Elagins's picture
Elagins

ITJB's formula hydrates at 58%.

Stan Ginsberg
www.nybakers.com

suave's picture
suave

Mimi Sheraton's recipe is also 58%, and Maggie Glezer's is 62%.  So I guess it goes to show that it still helps to read books.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

would be too low for such an absorbent wheat flour.  Is that what you meant by "...ratio % of bread to flour."  ?

60% sounds more in line to wheat bread flour.  All purpose wheat flour would be from 50% to 56% easy.  Milled whole grain wheat would be higher.

hlieboff59's picture
hlieboff59

oops my mistake on that sentence...What I meant to say was...

After carefully examining the most important aspect...ratio % of water to flour.

What I used for that recipe was KA Bread flour. Thanks for the info everyone.

 

thomaschacon's picture
thomaschacon (not verified)

There's a funny story about one of Nancy Silverton's bakery muses, Izzy the Retired Baker, re: bagels.

Izzy'd come out of retirement on the weekends to make authenic bagels at Nancy's bakery. He'd walk to the "pantry", check the supply of high-gluten bread flour. If there was enough, he'd make bagels. If not, he'd go home.

"No high-gluten flour, no bagels!"

As bailys (bailyes, baileys, rumpoles of the old...) are just bagels without the hole (+ some filling), I'm with Izzy, "No high-gluten flour, no bailys!"

[There are 10^42 threads on this site about adding vital wheat gluten to bread flour to mimic high-gluten bread flour, almost none of which with I agree. I don't wish to rekindle the High Gluten Bread Flour Wars; but, if pushed, I'd stick to my guns: "No high-gluten flour, no bagels/bailys!"]

Elagins's picture
Elagins

you're completely wrong on this one: bagels and bialys couldn't be more different. Bagels contain malt, bialys don't. Bagels are shaped, retarded, boiled then baked; bialys are bulk fermented, benched, proofed, "pulled," filled, and then baked. In Poland, bialy dough was prepared with Sandomierz wheat, which is a softer, European variety; bialys have always been made with higher-gluten flours. In America, Kossar's, which is by consensus - and in the absence of any meaningful competition - the Holy Shrine of bialydom, uses high-gluten flour. I personally prefer a softer crumb and less chew, but that's a matter of preference. In ITJB, the recipe uses bread flour, with a note saying that hi-gluten can be substituted for more chew.

But whatever your preference, "a bialy is a bagel without the hole" is simply not true.

Stan

thomaschacon's picture
thomaschacon (not verified)

No expertise on bialy. I can't even pronounce the word or spell the plural.

Alas, my comment was specific to the flour, not the procedure. 

You now force me to make them.

(Come to think of it, the reason I haven't made them is because I've wrongly thought of them as bagels without the hole.)

 

Elagins's picture
Elagins

you're not alone in that bialys=bagels misconception, so you're in great company. Incidentally, if you really want a mouthful - both figuratively and literally - their full name is bialystoker kuchen. Chew on that (them) for a while.

Stan

thomaschacon's picture
thomaschacon (not verified)

Is the correct pronunciation BEE-OW-LEE?: http://www.answers.com/topic/bialy

I was pronouncing it BAY-LEE.

Plural, incidentally, is simply bialys.

Not to be confused with the Polish biały, which means white in English.

Elagins's picture
Elagins

*bagels* have always been made with high-gluten flour.

thomaschacon's picture
thomaschacon (not verified)

Baily = high gluten optional.

Got it. 

(Good news too, as I'm out of high gluten flour and, with bike season coming up, there's no way I'm allowing myself within a mile of another 50 lb. bag of it). 

hlieboff59's picture
hlieboff59

that's a great and funny story. Okay, where is the best place to get high-gluten flour? Hopefully not too expensive. Not too long ago, I bought from KA Sir Lancelot HGF in the mail and still have maybe about 3-4 cups left. I'll use that over the weekend. I work in NYC and live in New Jersey. Every Friday, I bring like  32 oz Nalgene bottle and import NYC water home to make bread/bialys almost every weekend when I feel the urge to bake. Thanks for your input. I'm begining to see the light at the end of the high gluten flour tunnel!! :0)

thomaschacon's picture
thomaschacon (not verified)

I buy King Arthur Sir Lancelot Hi-Gluten Flour (14.2 Protein, .52 Ash, Enriched) in 50 lb bags from Dawn Foods.

Your best bet is to just drive to one of their distribution centers and pick it up yourself. Maybe grab a bag of Sir Lancelot while you're at it. You can get both for $50-60. Try buying it online and you'll pay $300+ for a similar quantity + shipping.

50 lbs. sounds like a lot, but it keeps well. It also encourages you to bake more, so you'll learn more. If you can't eat what you bake, bring it to work or a food shelter. Few people turn down quality baked goods.

thomaschacon's picture
thomaschacon (not verified)