The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Fresh Milled Pointe a Calliere Miche

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

Fresh Milled Pointe a Calliere Miche

I am getting ready to start a version of Pointe a Calliere Miche from Jefferey Hamelman's book, and I was wondering if anyone would have any advice on fresh milled flour substitution issues.  I have baked this before using the 85% whole wheat flour (King Arthur) and 15% AP ( KA Sir Lancelot) flour as described in the book with good results, but now I want to attempt it using  85% fresh milled hard red spring wheat berries. I am figuring on using the lesser 2 hour fial rise because of the quicker fermentation expected from the fresh flour.  I have baked with fresh milled up to 50% so I have some experience but am expecting surprises.

 

Any advice?

PiPs's picture
PiPs

Hi Hutchndi,

I haven't baked the Pointe a Calliere Miche but I regularly bake high extraction miches with freshly milled sifted flour.

Things I would consider would be:

  • Using a long autolyse ... 1 hour or longer perhaps (some people have success autolysing flour overnight while incorporating the salt)
  • Maybe a more intensive mix ... would be best to follow Jefferys instructions but I find the fresh milled grains need a good mix/knead.
  • Mix with slightly cooler temperatures ... I am not sure of your ambient temperatures so this may not be necessary but I find it helpful to mix freshly milled grains a few degrees cooler to slow down the fermentation.
  • Remember everything happens quicker with wholegrains ... watch the dough not the clock.

Best of luck ... hope its an enjoyable process

Cheers,
Phil

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

Thanks Phil, the bread name isn't important, using fresh milled is probably going to change it considerably enough that the name won't apply anyway, I just plan on following his basic recipe.  A couple questions about your reply:

  • I do have a 6 quart Kitchenaid stand mixer that never gets used, do you think I should make use of it for this or stick to hand kneading?
  • I never did such a long autolyse as you suggest, wouldn't overnight seriously change the proofing times?

Thanks

PiPs's picture
PiPs

I don't use a mixer so I am probably not much use in giving advice regarding that. You should be able to use either. Maybe hand mixing would give you a better feel for how the dough is developing and also has the advantage of not warming up the dough too much.

Are you adding the starter to the autolyse? Your using a liquid starter I assume? I use a firm starter which means when I autolyse I combine just flour and water. This can then sit for extended periods without changing the dough to oven time-lines. 

If you are adding the liquid starter to the autolyse you may need to pay more careful attention to temps and only autolyse for 30mins to an hour before mixing as the starter will start the fermenting process as soon as its added.

cheers,
Phil

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

The recipe originally called for stiff starter added before the autolyse, but now I think I will incorporate your method if as you suggest it is better for fresh milled flour, Ill post my results in a few days. 

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

This was interesting, what I ended up doing was doing a salt in no levain autolyse started at the same time as my levain build, similar to how Phil suggested. This seemed to get me in the ballpark for how I want to work with the fresh milled flour. There is allot of room for tweeking the next time though, I at first thought the dough was almost unmanageably sticky and wet (kokopelli got kind of messed up when the stencil got stuck a bit) , but it firmed up fair enough toward the end so that it possibly could have been even wetter, the proofing times were a challenge, and I think it could have baked at a higher temp than what I was following from the Hamelman recipe, the crust could have been darker. Smells totally awesome though and I am looking forward to cutting into it tomorrow afternoon.

 

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

PiPs's picture
PiPs

I would hold off adding the stiff starter so it allows the freshly milled flour time to absorb all the water. Also I was thinking you may need to adjust and increase the water amount as fresh milled flours tend to be thirsty. What you add depends on how you want the dough to feel and behave plus also how strong the flour is that you have milled.

I would combine the flour and water till there are no dry lumps of flour and let sit for an hour (autolyse)

Add the stiff starter (be patient ... it will incorporate) and knead for a few minutes.

then think about the dough ... how does it feel? Does it need more hydration? Is it good?

Move the dough back into a bowl if mixing by hand and add the salt and any furhter water additions. Squeeze to incorporate then knead for again until you reach the desired development (I usually aim for 10min by hand)

Cheers,
Phil