The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Let bread machine rise or do it manually? Any advice on custom programs for the Zojirushi in making dough?

  • Pin It
SunnysGlimpse's picture
SunnysGlimpse

Let bread machine rise or do it manually? Any advice on custom programs for the Zojirushi in making dough?

Hello,

I just joined the forum and first want to thank all of you that have made so many contributions to the site! This is an incredible resource and helps make us all better bread makers. Something that is sorely needed in the U.S.! :)

So I am making Rustic European Breads from the Zojirushi BBCC-X20 machine and have started to shape them myself. I use SAF Instant Bread Machine yeast and use the "Instant Dough" setting on my machine since that is made for this type of yeast. After the kneading is complete, prior to the rising, I take the bread out, put it in a bowl, and let it rise once. Once that is complete, I proof it and let it rise again. Typically, it rises each time for about an hour and by then it has reached twice its size.

The Zojirushi's Instant Dough setting includes two rises already but they are very short. Here are the details:

Preheating (9 min) -> Kneading (21 min) -> First rising (10 min) -> Stir down -> Second rising (5 min)

Now I know the dough is in a nice warm environment in the machine but those risings seem very fast compared to the 2 hours I have it rising in a bowl and I get great volume.

So here are my questions:

  • Do people let the bread machine do the rising instead of taking it out and doing it themselves?
  • Do people let the bread machine do the rising and then take it out, proof it, and let it rise again for an hour?
  • If people use the custom program (hand made) to make rustic breads, what courses are you using (preheat, knead, rise1, rise2, rise3) and how long are you setting them to run?

Thanks for all feedback!

Wayne

 

Edthebread's picture
Edthebread

Hi, I had one of these machines a few years ago, and I remember that there was an alternate dough setting with a longer rising time - maybe about 40 minutes?  If not, you should be able to set a custom cycle.  I would recommend leaving the dough in the machine for the first rise, as the environment is ideal, then taking it out for the shaping and final proofing.

SunnysGlimpse's picture
SunnysGlimpse

Yes, there is a Basic and Quick dough setting. They say the Quick setting is for IDY and the Basic is for ADY. These are the times:

Basic Dough

Preheating (22 mins) -> Kneading (21 mins) -> First rising (45 mins) -> Stir down -> Second Rising (22 mins)

Quick Dough

Preheating (9 mins) -> Kneading (21 mins) -> First rising (10 min) -> Stir down -> Second Rising (5 mins)

I'm thinking of creating a custom cycle that would go:

Preheating (9 mins) -> Kneading (25 mins) -> First rising (60 min) -> Remove, fold or punch down?, shape, and proof

How does that sound?

Edthebread's picture
Edthebread

The custom program you describe should do the trick.  But you probably don't need to increase the kneeding time to 25 mins.  I found the kneeding was very thorough using the standard timing, and you could probably use a bit less.  I would go with about 20 minutes for the kneeding.

SunnysGlimpse's picture
SunnysGlimpse

Great, thanks for the advice!

jcking's picture
jcking

For best results weigh all ingredients. The Basic setting works best even with instant yeast. I let the machine do all the work. To make rustic breads leave out the sugar and butter.

Jim

SunnysGlimpse's picture
SunnysGlimpse

Thanks for the advice. Is there any reason to use the longer preheat time of the basic setting or would the 9 minutes be sufficient? I plan on making my own custom setting.

taurus430's picture
taurus430

on occassion if I don't want to be bothered mixing, kneading etc. I like the option of using the bread machine. I have a Sunbeam and I let the machine do all the work (dough cycle) in 1.5 hrs. I then take the dough out, let it rest, then shape the dough for what I want, and final rise shaped. I would stay with the basic dough as a quick rise, I believe, uses different flour (maybe self rising flour), not sure.

Rob

jcking's picture
jcking

How cold is your water? That and the temperature of ingredients will determine the length of preheating. I'm wondering about your experience with the ZO. Have you made satisfactory loaves using the ZO for the whole process? Time and temperature need to be in balance to achieve consistent results. Just setting a time without reference to a desired dough temperature is meaningless. Dough temperature determines length of fermentation and proofing. I'm not trying to discourage you, just lead you to consistent results.

Jim

SunnysGlimpse's picture
SunnysGlimpse

Jim, I really like the Zojirushi and have had many types of loafs come out of it via the whole process. As others have pointed out here and on other forums though, sometimes the edges of the loaf can be thicker.

I prefer now though to just use it to knead the dough and handle a rise or two before I do the final proof.

Wayne

jcking's picture
jcking

Wayne, as you attempt to program the Zo, remember 75°F is a good temperature to bulk ferment and proof. In that regard it's good practice to have all ingredients at 75°F. If needed adjust the water temp to compensate. With a temp of 75°F there is no need to pre-heat unless the room temp is lower than 70°F. A thermometer is a good friend to have.

Jim

MNBäcker's picture
MNBäcker

FWIW, I love to use my Zo for making Pizza Dough. Dump in the ingredients, let the machine do all the work (including the bulk proof), then take out the dough and divide/shape.

Easy as pie (pizza pie, that is...:)

 

Stephan

jcking's picture
jcking

Stephan, very good point. The Zo or almost any bread machine is great for wet doughs 70% hydration and up. Though not often mentioned, Rose Levy Beranbaums "Bread Bible" has many good tips on using the bread machine and many other useful tips for the home baker. Such as bay leaves in bags of stored flour to avoid pest infestation.

Jim