The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Problem of yeast smell

satimis's picture
satimis

Problem of yeast smell

Hi all,

After baking the smell of yeast is around the bread.  Even after cooling down the smell of yeast on the bread is still strong.  Please advise how to remove it.  TIA

B.R.
satimis

tn gabe's picture
tn gabe

if you post your recipe, it'll be easier to say for sure, but i think you are using too much yeast.

raqk8's picture
raqk8

Aside from using too much yeast, rising or proofing your loaves too long causes the yeast to run out of sugar to metabolize and produce an alcohol-like or yeasty smell. Make sure your rising and proofing times are fine.

Raquel @ Ovenmitts Blog

fermento's picture
fermento

As another poster suggested, I think you are probably thinking of another by product of the bread making process. Does this dissipate after a few hours? It's tempting to say you apparently don't like the aroma of fresh baked bread, but perhaps it's just a matter of experimenting with different methods or flours?

satimis's picture
satimis

Hi folks,

Thanks for your advice.

Hereinunder is the recipe used and steps performed:-

Baked a wholemeal bread according to following recipe in the Kenwood breadmaker BM450.  The recipe was suggested by Kenwood.

Ingredients
Loaf size 750g
Egg 1
Lemon juice 1 tbsp
Honey 2 tbsp
Wholemeal bread flour 450g
Unbleached white bread flour 50g
Salt 2 tsp
Active dried yeast 1 tsp
Water Put the egg in the measuring cup and add sufficient water up to 310 mls

Factory preset Program 3 selected
Total cycle time 4:30 hrs
Preheat time 0:30 hrs (very low temp almost without feeling)
Kneading time 1:30 hrs
Rise time (fermentation) 1:50 hrs
Baking time 0:40 hrs

I retain the loaf in the loaf box.  The smell is still there even over night

B.R.

satimis

 

 

 

copyu's picture
copyu

I was looking at another post you made (...earlier, I think?) I seem to remember that you were asking why your bread was 'not soft enough'...I was surprised that the formula/recipe you posted didn't include any 'whole' or 'skim-milk' powder, or any sort of fat. I've read hundreds of 'bread machine recipes' and it struck me as odd that BOTH of those ingredients were missing...do you have a health-related problem with dairy foods? If so, you have my sincere sympathy, but you could substitute other vegetable-based fats and conditioners, if that's the problem.

I found a recipe very similar to yours, online, that is recommended by Kenwood for the BM450 and it clearly states that you need about an ounce (25-30g) of butter and a tablespoon of dried milk powder to make a 750g loaf using 90-100% whole-wheat flour in the BM450...this MAY answer your other question about softness, but doesn't address the issue of the 'smell'.

Were you possibly tempted to substitute "Bread Machine Yeast" (which is also known as "Instant Yeast") for the "Active Dried Yeast"? In that case, your problem is solved! A teaspoon of instant yeast might be adequate to ferment 2-3kg (4-6 pounds or so) of flour...it's possible to change the type of yeast, but NOT precisely by weight or volume. I also noticed that you used much more sugar and salt in your recipe than Kenwood recommends. Both salt and sugar can inhibit yeast action and would (almost certainly) affect the program of a bread machine...

Is there anything helpful or informative in this post? Please let us know.

Very best wishes,

copyu   

 

 

satimis's picture
satimis

Hi copyu,

That recipe posted by me was suggested by Kenwood in their manual for Wholemeal bread.

Printed manual supplied with BM450 breadmaker
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/912Eq7XQt0S.pdf

P-10
Kenwood suggested "Easy blend dried yeast".  I used "Active dried yeast" instead.  Strangely I could NOT find "Instant Yeast" in the supermarkets here" (Hong Kong).  All of them are selling "Active Dried Yeast"

Kenwood has other recipes for Basic White Bread and Brioche Bread" respectively.  Both of them need Vegetable oil/butter and milk.  I don't know why they omited them on this recipe.

Besides 2 tbsp of honey and 2 tsp of salt were also suggested by Kenwood.

All cycle times were preset by Kenwood in Program 3

 

satimis

copyu's picture
copyu

Thanks very much for the link to the manual. You even mentioned the "Easy blend yeast..." (whatever that means! It sounds like 'A-D-Y' to me, too) and the "pre-heat" part of the cycle...You are obviously correct in all of your procedures. It's Kenwood that's screwed up, in my opinion. I found only this one whole-wheat recipe for the BM450...but lord only knows if it would work! It looks very "do-able" to me, but I would be tempted to substitute a tablespoon of dry milk powder and 50-150g white bread or AP flour for some of the whole wheat flour, just to give a little 'insurance'...Whole wheat and rye B-M recipes also usually recommend a small amount of 'vital wheat gluten' (instead of adding white flour?)

http://www.kenwoodworld.com/uk/My-Kenwood-Kitchen/BM450-Recipes/100-Wholemeal-Bread/

This link could be older than your machine and its manual. Is it worth a try? I have a B-M (not a Kenwood!) but have never actually baked in it. I've only used mine for the 'dough cycle', ie, mix and first ferment. It sounds as if you know all the 'traps', at least. There are many little paperback B-M books and thousands of B-M recipes out on the internet and my comments were based on reading many of those. (Sorry my post wasn't of more help!) I'd try again, with a tablespoon of your favorite shortening and 1-2 level teaspoons of sugar at most...

All the best,

Adam (copyu)

PS: I thought I'd picked up my British "Dove's Quick Yeast" when I was in HK...It's in an orange package. (This is instant/B-M yeast, as is SAF blue, red, etc...) You'd want only about a quarter to a third of a teaspoon of this stuff. If you have trouble sourcing basic supplies, send me a personal message and I'll see what I can do to help. Adam

 

satimis's picture
satimis

Hi Adam,


Thanks for your advice.

Today I visited some supermarkets here specialised selling quality foods and purchased following flours and yeast;

Bob's red mill
Vital wheat gluten flour

Waitrose organic wholemeal flour

McDougalls UK
fast action bread yeast
perfect for bread machines

I shall follow the recipe on Kenwood's website to make wholemeal bread.

BM450 Wholewheat - Program 3
http://www.kenwoodworld.com/uk/My-Kenwood-Kitchen/BM450-Recipes/100-Wholemeal-Bread/

750g Loaf

Ingredients    
Water     310ml
Wholemeal Bread Flour    500g
Skimmed Milk Powder     1 tbsp
Salt     1 1/2 tsp
Sugar     1 tbsp
Butter     25g (or Canola oil)
McDougalls fast action bread yeast     1 tsp

Additionally adding;
Vital wheat gluten flour  20g (to enhance the dough)


Program 3 - preset by Kenwood
Total cycle time 4:30 hrs
Preheat time 0:30 hrs (very low temp almost without feeling)
Kneading time 1:30 hrs
Rise time (fermentation) 1:50 hrs
Baking time 0:40 hrs

during kneading I'll remove the lid of the breadmaker allowing more air to come in.

Appreciated to have your comment/suggestion before starting another baking.


Furthermore;
McDougalls "fast action bread yeast" costs USD 5 (Five dollars) approx per 56g.  The "Active Dried Yeast" costs USD 1.15 approx per 56g and is available almost in all supermarkets here including the supermarket where I purchased the former.  I suppose "Active Dried Yeast" will also work.  It is because I'm a beginner in bread baking without experience in adjusting the recipe and times on kneading/rise/baking etc.  Therefore I can't use it. 

 

B.R.

Stephen(satimis)

copyu's picture
copyu

Sorry not to get back sooner. I'm wondering what the McDougalls yeast is...[I'll google it later]. 'Active Dried Yeast' (which is what you used, before,) generally has larger particle size than 'Instant Yeast'. I'd hesitate to use a whole teaspoonful, if it looks much finer than the yeast you are familiar with.

Admittedly, I use only a scant quarter teaspoonful of instant yeast, but I allow long, slow primary fermentation, mostly at room temperatures, occasionally in the fridge...I usually use 'around a pound' of total flour...430-470grams, depending on the formula. I guess I also use slightly higher hydration, which may help the yeast along on its way. Your hydration would be a tad under 60%, if my math is OK.

Don't be shy about using "instinct" if your dough looks too dry, but proceed very slowly. If it looks dry, add a maximum of one tablespoon of water at a time and let it continue mixing for a while. You could repeat once or twice more, at most, until things "look OK". Remember to use a spatula to push dry ingredients down to the dough-ball at the early stage of mixing.

Best of luck with the next bake!

Adam

PS: That's a shocking price for McD's yeast! Stick with ADY for now and use the full teaspoonful.   

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Some ideas:  

  • honey  (bees can pick flowers that we don't particularly like)  Combo of honey and lemon, taste it, see if the flavors work together.
  • lemon juice  (Some varieties can get bitter while baking... this is my main suspect)  Try it without and see what happens.
  • non-stick surface of the pan might be adding an aroma or off taste.   Could contain old oil or flavor.  Don't run thru the dishwasher but hand wash.
  • something under the pan caught in the heating element could be adding an off taste
  • go thru all your ingredients and taste/smell them including the yeast to make sure they are fresh

 

satimis's picture
satimis

Hi all,

I baked a wholemeal loaf with following recipe modified on Kenwood's online recipe;
BM450 Wholewheat - Program 3
http://www.kenwoodworld.com/uk/My-Kenwood-Kitchen/BM450-Recipes/100-Wholemeal-Bread/

750g Loaf

Ingredients:-
Water                 310ml (lukewarm)
Wholemeal Bread Flour        500g
fresh Milk            2 tbsp
Salt                 1 1/2 tsp
Canola oil                1.82 tbsp approx
Active Dried Yeast        1 tsp

Additionally adding;
Vital wheat gluten flour      10g (to enhance the dough)

Select Program 3 (pre-programmed by Kenwood) and midium brown crust

Total cycle time         4:25 hrs
Preheat time             0:25 hrs
Kneading time             1:30 hrs
Rise time (fermentation)     1:50 hrs
Baking time             0:40 hrs

During Rise kneading started twice, duration about 30 seconds each.

Steps performed
Poured 310ml lukewarm water in the baking pan and disolved salt in it.  Added fresh milk and Canola oil.  Stirred the mixture well before adding flours.

A soft wholemeal loaf was resulted with crisp crust.  After cooling and slicing I put the loaf in an air-tight bread box.  I hope the loaf will remain soft tomorrow morning (after 14 hours)

The smell of yeast is not so strong as the previous wholemeal bread.  I'll check the smell again tomorrow.

Thanks

 

copyu's picture
copyu

It looks as though you'll be an "expert" soon ;-)

Well done! I think you made good sense out of the alternative formulae and made intelligent substitutions (in small increments, naturally!)

Keep up the good work!

Adam

satimis's picture
satimis

Hi Adam,

The bread is not so soft after one night.  I steam the bread before eating.

I'm prepared adding ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) to the ingredients on my next bake in anticipation that the bread can retain its freshness in 2 days.

However most Vitamin C available in dispensaries here with calcium/zinc added. Now I found one without additive, a chewable Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid). The bottle contains 60 tablets
Vitamin C as ascorbic acid – 250mg

I'm prepared to make a plain bread of 500g in size.  Do you know how much shall I add?  Thanks

Yeast smell still remains.  Its smell is similar to the smell in beer brewery.  I have no idea how to remove it.  Maybe reducing yeast quantity can improve.

B.R.

Stephen

 

 

 

 

 

 

copyu's picture
copyu

is probably added at the mill, as it is a 'permitted' additive in many countries. I'm not a miller, so I have no experience of how much (little?) is useful for any particular flour, but I do know that quantities are measured in the "Parts per Million" range...20-40 ppm seems to be average for millers. (Someone might step in and correct me, but that's what I've read in very respectable baking books...)

I would not expect any longer 'keeping' qualities by adding ascorbic acid to a bread dough... [Are you thinking about 'sourdough', which keeps for a couple of days, at least?] Sourdough baking is a completely different 'beast' and many recipes/formulae are not so well-adapted to bread machines. However, there are certainly work-arounds...

Best,

Adam

 

 

Chuck's picture
Chuck

I suspect what you're smelling is basically alcohol. Alcohol is a byproduct of yeast fermentation, and is the reason that "fresh bread smell" is "beery". I don't know of any way to "remove" the aroma later; it seems the only solution is to keep it from happening in the first place.

Bread machines walk a fine line between too little yeast and too much yeast. With too little yeast, the bread may not rise enough to fill the pan, or may even come out "dense". With too much yeast, there may be weird aromas, and possibly even weird (bitter?) flavors. The balance is so fine it's not unheard of to have a bread machine recipe that's working perfectly go crazy and stop rising one fall simply because the new year's wheat harvest was a little different than the year before. Despite their best efforts, bread machine recipes often don't get it exactly right, and you may need to adjust the amount of yeast either up or down a little according to your previous experiences with that same recipe and  flour.

If you're making bread right away when you put the ingredients in the bread machine (as opposed to putting in the ingredients but then setting the bread machine to delay for a while before doing anything), try this: Cut the amount of yeast the recipe specifies in half. Despite what the directions say, do not put the yeast granules in along with the flour so they stay dry. Instead, pour the yeast directly into the water (warm, right) right after you add it. Then wait ten minutes for the yeast to thoroughly dissolve and wake up and start to become frothy before you add the rest of the ingredients and turn the bread machine on.

satimis's picture
satimis

Hi Adam and Chunk,

Baked another loaf according to following recipe with minor modification;
BM450 Rapid - Program 2 (on site manual)
http://www.kenwoodworld.com/uk/My-Kenwood-Kitchen/BM450-Recipes/White-Rapid-Bread/

500g Loaf

Ingredient:
Water                     245ml
Vegetable Oil                 1 tbsp (Canola oil)
Unbleached White Bread Flour        350g
Skimmed Milk Powder             1 tbsp (suggested but not available at home)
Fresh Milk                4 tbsp (substituded with)
Salt                     1 tsp
Sugar                     2 tsp
Active Dried Yeast             1/2 tsp
Easy Blend Dried Yeast            1 tsp (suggested)

Adding;
Ascorbic acid (as Vitamin C tablet)    1/4 tablet (250mg/4 = 62.5mg)

Steps performed:
- add yeast to lukewarm water in the baking pan, allowing standing for 10 min to disolve
- crash Vitamin C tablet(Ascorbic acid) as powder and disolve the latter in Fresh milk plus salt and sugar
- add the mixture of Ascorbic acid, salt and sugar to the lukewarm water in the baking pan
- add Canola oil to the baking pan
- stir all mixture well in the baking pan before adding flour
- select Program 2, bread size and crust color (light color) -> press "Start"
- kneading starts immediately

Total cycle time    3:32 hrs
After kneading 20 min dispenser actuated.
Kneading time        0:34 hrs
Rise time        2:42 hrs
Baking time        0.36 hrs.

- The bread is a little bid too soft supposed accounting for EITHER adding too much Fresh milk OR without adding Wheat gluten
- Rise is NOT sufficient maybe insufficient yeast used
- The smell of alcohol is still present.  Would it be the characteristic of the breadmaker.

I'll check whether the bread will remain soft after one night.  Thanks

B.R.
Stephen

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Is it a problem for your bread maker if you open the door, or can you open the lid as the loaf progresses?  Maybe just letting out the gasses/exchange for fresh air might make a big difference.  Without a bread maker, dough gets plenty of chances to exchange air every time a cover is lifted, shaped, rested, moved to the oven, etc.  In a machine the lid is down and it stays in place until the loaf comes out.  What do you think?  

It is normal for some alcohol aroma to leave the oven/loaf after baking.  Don't leave the loaf in the machine or bread pan after it has finished baking.  A rack that holds cooling bread off the counter top into the air is preferred until cooled completely.  I have noticed that many cooling racks are not high enough.  If condensation occures under the loaf on the flat surface under the rack, get the rack higher into the air.  Rest the rack on mugs or cans to get a good "airing" of the loaf. 

satimis's picture
satimis

Hi,

Is it a problem for your bread maker if you open the door, or can you open the lid as the loaf progresses?

No, not a all.  I have considered your suggestion before.  However in another thought the temperature of the baking chamber will be cooled down in such arrangement.  It may bring an inverted effected if preheating is required.  I would try your suggestion in next round if preheating is NOT required.

Don't leave the loaf in the machine or bread pan after it has finished baking

No, the loaf has been transferred to the cooling rack immediately after baking finished.  Next time I'll raise the height of the cooling rack.  Thanks

B.R.

Stephen

 

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I'm not suggesting to leave the lid open while the machine works, just come by now and then and open it for 5 seconds and the put the lid back down.    I can understand keeping it closed completely during the bake segment.

satimis's picture
satimis

I'm not suggesting to leave the lid open while the machine works, .......

Hi Mini Oven,

Advice noted.  Thanks.

 

Hi all,

After one night the bread is still fresh and soft.  It is up to my satisfaction.  I expect keeping the bread only for one or two day.

I'll make another baking using the same recipe for white rapid bread but with following changes on the ingredients;

- Active Dried Yeast increased to 3/4 of tsp

- use milk powder (I'll get it on next shopping)

- Unbleached White Bread Flour  300g + Whole wheat flour 50g = 350g totally

- Other ingredients will remain unchanged.