The Fresh Loaf

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80% rye bread with rye soaker and rye chops

codruta's picture
codruta

80% rye bread with rye soaker and rye chops

I didn't even finished my last rye bread (the one I wrote about here) and I was eager to do another one. This time with rye chops in it. Or...at least  I think they are rye chops... I took some rye berries, soaked them overnight in warm water, and next morning I chopped them with a sharp knife. I guess that makes them rye chops...doesn't it? As a difference from last time, I used british rye flour (last time it was austrian) from Doves Farm. I increased the hydration (from 83% last time), but I can't say for sure how much, I can't estimate precisely how much water was absorbed by the rye berries, but I think overall hydration was somewhere between 88%-89%.

20% strong white flour (doves farm), 80% rye flour, 20% rye chops, some caraway and fennel seeds, toasted and crushed. (sorry about the quality of the picture, it was taken very early in the morning, but I want to show you the "rye chops")

Everything seamed fine until I put it in the oven. How can this beauty:

turn into this "beast":

After 24 hours I cut it in two, and the crumb was a bit sticky. I thought the bread is compromised, but I let it sit another 24 hours until I sliced it and taste it. It is quite delicious. When toastes, the rye chops gets a nutty wonderful flavor. The bread is sweet from rye, and sweet from berries. I feel like I'm on the right track, but I want to have more volume in my rye breads than this:

I am happy that I don't have to trasform this bread into altus (that was my fear when I first cut it), but I'm dissapointed that I didn't get more volume. It has only 6 cm height :( What did I do wrong? the dough was not overproofed, that is for sure. Maybe a bit underproofed? I worked it too much when I shaped it? And why does the crumb feel a bit sticky when the internal temperature after baking was (again) 98C?

Codruta

 

 

Comments

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Hi Codruta,

The crumb looks great. Must be very tasty.

I think that "Rye Chops" would be smaller than soaked rye berries cut with a knife, and I also think they would take more water and release a bit more glue - which in my opinion explains the height of your loaf.

Look at this:

http://www.grainmillers.com/Rye.aspz

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11411/rye-chops-making-my-own

Juergen

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Codruta, your rye bread is already wonderful as it is. Asking for a more open crumb considering the massive presence of rye (and the chops, too!) is asking too much, in my opinion. Maybe a super-high temperature would help, but who can afford 400°C at home?

You can be very satisfied, really!

 

codruta's picture
codruta

Hi, nico. I'm not asking for a more open crumb, only a higher profile. This loaf is rather flat than high. I love the taste, the texture, the smell, I like eating it. I'm satisfied :)

... but I just want to make a prettier loaf than this one.

codruta

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Hi Codruta, from your pictrure it looks like many rye berries are still intact after chopping.

I think it makes a huge difference whether you chop soaked rye berries or soak chopped rye berries ...

I used a hand mill to make rye chops (looked somewhat like in the photo from the link I posted), and after soaking they were very soft and hardly could be distinguished in the finished loaf, whereas yours clearly shows rye berries  ...

I second nico, you made a great loaf, even if it is not exactly what you expected.

Juergen

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Rye and moisture is a funny trade off.  The more free water I add above 83%, the flatter it gets.  Try baking in a form if you want height or shorten the basket time.  I'm actually impressed it came out of the basket so well.  Six cm is pretty good!

Mini

codruta's picture
codruta

@ juergen: thank you for the links: very useful, indeed.

I left some berries intact cause I tried to crush them, but that didn't work and I didn't bother to chop them after that.

I think it makes a huge difference whether you chop soaked rye berries or soak chopped rye berries ...

Your observations are correct, it never occured to me before. I wonder if I'll have a better volume next time if  I'll soak the berries first, then chop them as fine as I can, and than soak them again.

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Codruta, Chopping dry berries always creates a little bit of dust - fine fragments of rye, and I would think it also leaves the chopped - or broken - surface of the berry a bit rough, bits can come off and the whole thing can expand more than in an intact berry.

Soaking first , then chopping, then soaking again sounds interesting. My expectation would still be cleaner cuts and a less sloppy soaker.

Ideally one would have several pots next to each other, in order to compare the result ...

codruta's picture
codruta

@mini: I guess I saw too many good breads made by you, david, hansjoakim and other rye masters here on TFL, and that is why I'm not satisfied with this loaf. I want height, but I don't want to bake in a form (I just got my bannetons, I'm still under the influence of their beauty :)). I'll shorten the basket time, or I'll decrease hydration. Thank you, mini. One day I hope I'll be able (and confident) to make your 100% rye bread, it's been on my mind from the moment you post about it.

codruta

PiPs's picture
PiPs

Hi Codruta,

Seems we are both battling rye breads at the moment :)

I think you are having a little more luck than me though. I think we both struggle for that visual appeal. Your bread looks great and is probably what I would expect with the amount of cracked grains. I'd be more than happy with it. Can only imagine how great it would smell with the fennel seeds.

Glad you are enjoying the bannetons, they really give the bread that special magic.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

wheat flour without all the other flours in there.  Combine water with wheat and let it autolyse and stir it a while before adding the starter, rye flour and chops.  If you can.  Let the wheat flour develop its gluten first.  See if that helps hold the shape better, also reduce the time in the banneton.  With plenty of flour on the dough, you should be able to carry out a poke test.  

Can't wait to see the next loaf!   :)

codruta's picture
codruta

mini, your comment came right on time! I had everything mise-en-place when I opened TFL site to see/read today new posts. I'll do as you suggest, thanks for the advise. I'll post in 1-2 days about it, after I'll cut the loaf.

All the very best wishes

codruta

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

You gotta angle your knife more so the slice appears taller.  You can make a one inch tall loaf into two inches tall with 45°!   :)

Slice for thought.

Mini