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Tartine in tins like Dave Muller from Outerlands

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BlueDog's picture
BlueDog

Tartine in tins like Dave Muller from Outerlands

Please help.

I've been making all sorts of the tartine recipes for a while now and everyone is loving them but having to make them in the dutch oven limits how many I can make in one go and I'm baking forever. I really want to follow the method that Dave Muller uses at Outerlands and use tins. His schedule is much more friendly and is clearly built around the fact that he has to sell lots of bread to make money from it.

I live in the UK so in general it is much cooler here. Overnight my kitchen drops to 17decC. I have been splitting a full tartine recipe into 4 and making 4x500g tins. However, there is no overnight rise and I'm baking bricks! I see in the tartine video that Dave's loaves rise overnight and he bakes them without anything to hold the steam in. Also he slashes them before the final rest and the cut seems to stay.... mine certainly doesn't.

So, who can help me?? I really need to nail this recipe to take the baking to the next level and be productive enough to start selling my bread.

Thanks

Chris

yy's picture
yy

I don't think David in the video is making tartine bread at all - the dough seems stiffer, and the shot of the slice reveals a crumb that is much closer, fluffier and less open than the tartine country loaf. The video doesn't actually explain whether it's a sourdough loaf at all, though I assume so if the original intent was to replicate Chad's bread. In either case, it seems that David has adapted a formula to his needs. 

Do you know how long it takes your starter to reach peak volume at 17degC?

 

BlueDog's picture
BlueDog

Well funnily enough my starter is brilliant. I mix 1tbsp with 100white 100whole and 200 water and when I get home from work 8 hours later it is good to go. I tried last night doing the bulk ferment at 24degC (I had the fire on all evening!) and then left the loaves in this room over night so it was prob 20degC. They rose well overnight but the dough was the consistency of bubble gum when I baked them. They didn't rise much more in the oven but the crust and crumb were really good.

I just want to be able to get it to rise above the top of the tin to look nice.

I'm trying tonight with a bit more flour and an extra 100g starter so it's about 65% hydration. I'll let you know how it goes!

 

yy's picture
yy

Lower hydration should help you a bit with the rise. Post photos of the results here :-)

When you say that the dough was the consistency of bubble gum, do you mean that it was very sticky and gluey? Did it hold its structure well, or did you see bubble breaking through the surface during the bake? This could be due to your fermentation being too long, and too much of the gluten being broken down by the starter cultures. 

BlueDog's picture
BlueDog

Update:

I've done two more overnighters now :o)

#1 I wanted to up the amount in the loaf tins to see if I could bake a slightly fuller loaf. I upped the recipe to 2200g allowing me 550g in a 500g tin and 1100g in a 1kg (that's 1/2 and 1lb tins for you americans!). I used an extra 100g of Starter too. I kept to a 3hr bulk rise as per the original Tartine, then a 30 min rest, a good fold, two slashes and left it to rise over night. I noticed in the morning that the room temp was still about 20degC and again, bubble gum (yes bubbles to the top). Again it baked well with a little bit of rise and the slashes in the top broke open which I'm pleased about. Good crust, good crumb but still no real shape or rise so not want I want.

#2 Thinking that it's still the quantities I increased to 2600g (that's 1350 flour, 900 water, 300 starter, then 75 water, 20 salt). I found did some more digging about the Outerland approach and tried to follow this a bit more. 

I made my starter about 5pm from an active levian. By 7pm it floated on water so was ready to use. I made the dough and left it to AutoLyse for 30 mins then added the extra salt and water. I did about 1hr30 of turns at 15 min intervals and then did a 30 min bench rest. The dough felt good when I shaped it and put it into tins 2X650 1x1300, two slashes in the top and left to rest in an 18degC kitchedn (In Tartine it actually says the rest is at 65F so I'm close.

In the morning the dough has completely relaxed in the tin so it is flat all the way across, the slashes are barely visible and the consistency is gluey/bubblegum :o( I knew what would happen if I baked this so I decided to tip out, fold and reshape. Two cuts then I baked in the oven. The result was a pretty good rise from the centre and the cuts opened up too. The loaves are still baking as I write but the look good but no bigger than a 500g so I think they might be a bit dense.

I've started now so I'm going to see this through - feel free to joine me! It looks to me that overnight, rather than rising as you might get if you made dough with shop bought yeast and go through that "double in size rise" period, that it is actually doing a bulk ferment. Instead of growing, the dough is relaxing into a goey mess :o( I wonder if I'm giving it too much starter? This will be tonights test. Back to a 2KG recipe but with much less starter.

I'll get the camera out too and start posting some pictures.

Any advice gratefully received.

Chris

BlueDog's picture
BlueDog

For what it is worth, these are some of the "facts" that I'm working to that I've managed to glean from the Tartin Book and the Web about Dave's method:

It's based on the Country Loaf recipe although "The dough is maybe five parts flour to four parts water, but no one is sure".

It's a 78% Hydration

The starter is made about 5pm, the dough is made during the evening, the bulf ferment takes between 1-2hrs with rigorous turns every 15 mins. The dough is shaped, slashed twice and left to rise overnight in loaf tins.

These are the tins - Amco 904245 - http://www.bigtray.com/searchresults.asp?s=bread&RN=4

From the Tartine Video, the overnight time-lapse shows the rise is about x2 and the dough rounds nicely over the top of the tin - http://www.tartinebread.com/video.html

The bread is baked in a convector oven about 16 at a time using the moisture from the many loaves to replace using a dutch oven.

The loaves are baked at 400F for 8 minutes then rotated and baked for another 8 minutes.

I've got some of this info from here: http://thebolditalic.com/WilliamBostwick/stories/785-loaf-lessons

Anyone have anything else to add?

Chris

 

 

Bertel's picture
Bertel

Hi Chris,

 

I wondered about this recipe as well, started a thread about it. Hadn't seen yours during a quick search. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/29031/who-tasted-daves-breadbreadpan-bread-questions

Haven't got breadpans at the moment so can't try it out. Did you manage in the end to bake something to your liking?

century's picture
century

Ive always wondered what his recipe entailed.