My sourdough bread has soap taste - any idea?
I am making Hamelman's sourdough seed bread according to the instructions on this website for almost a year - a wonderful bread. I am using a very successful starter that I started myself. Recently (about a month) the bread has a taste of soap ??? You take a bite, and first it is unnoticed. But after few seconds you cannot be mistaken - a sharp taste of soap. I discarded several loafs, and started from the beginning trying to improve anything I could: bought new flour (King Arthur), new flax seed, new sesame and sunflower seeds. I made sure no soap remnants in the tools I use - everything was washed and dried with a lot of water, including the kneading area. And today - 2 new loafs with the same taste.
Does anybody have an idea? is it any chemical reaction that creating that weird and bad taste?
Old seeds of all kinds can develop a soapy taste when old. You might have just bought it off the shelf but the store or warehouse may have stored it for a while in less than ideal conditions. Poppy seed,sunbflower,flax,wheat,oats,peanuts,walnuts-anything having an essential oil content can get this way and it tastes just like you describe. I store mine in the freezer to prevent this but I taste it as I buy it because I have had many a "new" package taste old and soapy.
Give all your seeds a good chew to taste and see which one it is.
thank you! I'll taste the seeds, although I did before and they all taste OK. I will also start a new starter from a back-up and see if it improves
from http://chestofbooks.com/food/science/Experimental-Cookery/Gluten-And-Dough-Continued.html
I hope it helps, but now you should find out if your dough contains alkaline stuff (baking powder? self-rising flour?).
I've had my sourdough come out tasting soapy, as well. It was just the faintest aftertaste and was masked when the bread was spread with jam.
It went away and my starter became more sour. So I guess the alkali explanation makes sense to me, in a way.
You might search for ways to make your dough more sour, there are several threads on the subject. You might also consider a shot of pineapple juice to get the pH level down.
Dear Colleagues,
A soapy flavor in sourdough breads often indicates an excess of lactic (as opposed to acetic) bacteria in your culture. This off-flavor is more common with liquid cultures. Sometimes the flavor is compared to that of old stinky socks, but I confess I've never had enough of a scientific inclination to actually taste those. If in fact your liquid starter does take on soapy flavors, more common during hotter and humid times of year, one solution is to convert it to a stiff culture for a week or two--the firmer condition reduces the soapiness and re-balances the flavor. It can then be returned to a liquid state if desired. We had this situation at the King Arthur Flour Bakery several years ago during a particularly hot and humid summer, and rather than convert all of our liquid levain formulas to stiff levain, instead we made the first build of the day a stiff one, and then the second build reverted the culture to a more liquid (125%) condition so that we could make our breads in our normal fashion. After a week or two the balance was restored and we returned to the usual liquid levain condition for both of our daily builds.
1. Regarding the last comment - excess lactic acid - sounds like not a good explanation because I made a new starter from a backup - still the same. I also made baguetts from that sourdough that turned great, tasty and no soapy flavor.
2. seeds - I did it without the sunflower seeds (although those tasted great) - still soapy. I bought a new package of flax seed, different company, organic, tasted them before (were OK) - still soapy! I am using the same sesame seeds - but these really taste great....
3. New package of bread and rye flower - still soapy
4. Reviewed my technic - no contact with soap or chemicals, fermentation in inert bowl, same tools like I use for the wonderful not soapy baguetts, no baking powder, no raising flour...
Each of this new experiment means 2 new loafs that I am throwing away, 3 days work....
So I'm really lost. Gonna do last try which is without flax seeds at all.
any other ideas???
Did you adjust the hydration level, as recommended, and keep your starter at a lower hydration for a long time? I see the original post is dated September 24, and this latest post is October 5. If you started three days ago on your bread and are posting directly after trying one, that means you gave it...just a little over a week. That isn't really enough time to change the character of a starter.
Do what has been recommended in terms of hydration, and keep it that way for a couple weeks to make sure that the situation has changed. Until you do, you'll keep wasting flour.
I did not adjust the hidration. I used that same sourdough for making baguetts that did not have any soapy taste so I assumed it has nothing to do with my sourdough.
As I wrote before - I made baguetts with the same culture without having the bad soapy taste. But (!) - according to the formula by Annis Boubsa - i make a firm starter out of my culture for those baguetts - so that might make the difference!
very interesting!
I'm going to try changing the hydration of my culture and will update regarding the results.
How exactly should I change that, and how often should I "feed" it?
Thanks a lot for everybody's advices here!
My personal go-to is about 1:2:3 s:w:f. Feed as normal, just add more flour. The consistency you're going for is one of dough instead of batter.
I wouldn't feed it less than twice a day, and if it's hot where you live three times a day at minimum. The reason for more frequent feeding is that the yeast activity peaks earlier in the cycle than the bacteria, and you don't really want the bacteria to reach their peak since they're causing the problem. Right now they're in paradise and misbehaving as a result. Time to bring them back in line. :)
So how long should I stick to that frequent feeding schedule? For my liquid lavain I keep on once a week schedule - is that wrong?
Not serious :)
Keep it like that until you successfully use it to bake a loaf without soapy flavor. One week, maybe two as Mr. Hamelman suggests. I'd probably advise to keep as small a starter as you can maintain during this time (25-50g) just to reduce flour waste. Not much bigger than a golf ball.
I'm assuming you keep the starter in the fridge between feedings? If so, are you waiting a little while after feeding to put it there? As long as you wait a couple hours to put it into the fridge after feeding, it can stay in your fridge for a while and be perfectly safe. There are some rare issues with fridges and starters, but most seem to be temporary and, while a pain to fix, ultimately not that hard to deal with.
Yes, I keep it in the fridge between feedings, and before putting back to the fridge I wait unti it rises (several hours) - is that what I should do?
thanks so much for your help
You shouldn't wait very long, I wouldn't let it peak before putting it in the fridge. Put it in after it starts rising but before the peak. You want the yeast to have a chance to be active.
Dear Drdudidu,
Only one other thing occurs to me that could be causing your off-flavor. You mention making baguettes that don't have the defect, but your other loaves have it. Tell me, are the other loaves proofing in new bannetons by any chance? Years ago I bought several dozen new ones and they all gave the bread a distinct off-flavor. I called the importer, who did some researching, and told me that often new bannetons have a naturally occurring compound in them called acetaldehyde (spelling might be off here), which can cause this condition. Her advice worked: scrub the baskets with hot soapy water, dry, and use. So if you happen to have new baskets, do try that and see if it helps. If it doesn't, I'm as stumped as everyone else on this one. Best of luck.
No - I did not use new banneton for proofing.
More follow up soon. Hope the hydration idea would work.
David
I followed the advice of Mr. Hamelman and G-man and converted my starter to a solid one for 10 days. I tried it twice during that process and the saopy taste has gone! In the first try the bread tasted good, but still lacked the amazing quality I was used to. After another several days the second try was great and i'v got my good bread back.
I just hope that now - when I transformed my starter back to the high hydration level the bad bacteria wouldn't grow back. Any good advices for that?
(For the breads I baked during the past week i used part of the "solid" starter)
Thanks everyone for your great help and advice. I learned that starters are more fragile than I thought.