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Onion Bagels Question

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ehanner's picture
ehanner

Onion Bagels Question

For the last week or so I have been experimenting with Bagel recipes, trying to get comfortable with one. I've been using Hamelmans at 58% hydration and Reinharts which is a little higher. Today I made a batch of PR's mix that was modified for egg yokes. Some were topped with poppy seeds, some with onion chips and a few plain. I have been baking on a stone at 500F in the middle rack. I had purchased 10 Lbs of All Trumps from NY Bakers and I must say I really like it. Nice crispy crust and chewy and a little open crumb. Delicious.

My question is this; I want to make onion or garlic bagels. I bought onion chips and garlic chips from Penzies that I have used successfully on my rye "everything" breads in the past. Today the onion chips burned a little and were somewhat bitter. I had hoped that being set in a tray of chips fresh out of the cold water bath would be enough moisture to prevent burning. They get maybe a minute between applying seeds, setting on the bagel board and being placed into the oven. I have always read that the dough on the boards needs to go in the oven quickly, so I don't delay much at all.

So, is my use of dry onion chips the best thing for this application? Or, should I rehydrate them first? I'm pretty sure they won't stick as well if I rehydrate them first. The poppy seeds are very well glued in place from resting seed side down on the bagel board. I'd love to hear from someone who makes Onion Bagels and can say for sure what I should do.

Thanks,

Eric

Elagins's picture
Elagins

dried onion will almost always burn at temps above 350 or so, and even then, I'm hesitant to use them dry because the heat seems to bring out the bitterness.

just cover them generously with boiling water, let the water cool to tepid and drain the onions in a strainer and you're ready to go.

Stan Ginsberg
www.nybakers.com

PS thanks for the plug!

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Thanks Stan. So will the onions stick to the dough after boiling? Or do I need to manually place the onions on the boards and lay the bagel dough on the top?

Eric

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

Eric,

Instead of looking at the onions as garnish, why not incorporate the rehydrated (or sauteed fresh) onions in the dough?  That will protect them from burning but still give you plenty of flavor.  You might have to drop your water content a percent or two to allow for the water in the onions.  Ditto for garlic.

Bonus: this leaves the tops free for seeds, etc.

Paul

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Hi Paul,

In the past when I have made Norms Onion rolls, I have used the hydrating water from re hydrating the onions to make up the dough. That works great and then the onions get squished into the surface. Since I have the dough shaped and in the cooler, that's not an option on this batch. A little of each approach might be a good idea.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Eric

Elagins's picture
Elagins

hi eric,

in the old-school bagel bakeries, they'd spread the toppings on the  boards, so that when they flipped the bagels, the seeds or whatever would be right-side up.  i've done that and find it really messy. i prefer to top my bagels right out of the boiler and haven't run into significant problems.

Stan

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Eric,

I'm not sure why but you seem to imply that using re-hydrated onion plus the soaking water to make up your dough is not an option.   I would make the dough as suggested by Paul, then scale and divide from there.   Retarding should not make any difference, surely?

All good wishes

Andy

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Hi Andy,

Perhaps I'm being obtuse. I have always thought that a garlic or onion bagel was simply a plain bagel with the topping and not part of the mix. I actually like the onion rolls I have made by using the hydrating water. After all, cinnamon-raisin  seem to be just fine made that way.

Thanks for chiming in Andy. Another clear note from the North tower!

Eric

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Eric,

and I guess Paul has to be the South tower!

You probably know that I am really not up on Bagels at all.   My only commercial experience of onion bagels involves picking frozen baked items out of boxes and re-baking them.   And no doubt, the bagels were c... [insert your own word; the wonders of Maple Leaf!!! Not]

So you could well be right.   If the onions are added as a topping only, then you are going to have a tricky time not burning them.   I think I'd prefer the onion in the dough...whether that's correct or not.

Best wishes to you

Andy

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Stan,

Today I found that the onions didn't stick to the bagels by simply pressing the dough into a layer of drained onions. The dough isn't sticky enough after boiling for a minute. I ended up holding the dough ring in one hand and spooning the onions on with the other, then inverting onto the board. It sounds more clumsy than it is and the result was good. Dipping in a tray of seeds is easy for everything dry.

Eric

FaithHope's picture
FaithHope

I've always just dunked my bagles in a quick egg wash.  Lay them upside down and sprinkle my cornmeal on the bottom, flip them over onto the parchment and add my toppings.  They never come off.  I have tried onions and they do burn a bit.  But I think if they are rehydrated, the do much better.  Maybe I do it wrong, but it works great for me. ;)