The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

HansJoakim's WW Pain au levain (v.2)

Mebake's picture
Mebake

HansJoakim's WW Pain au levain (v.2)

This is my second take at Hans Joakim version of Pain au Levain with Whole wheat. Recipe can be found in Hans's Blog here.

The Recipe Differs from Hamelman's in The amount of Rye and Wholewehat added, in addition to the levain. In this recipe, All rye is in the levain, and  is mixed with the remaining ingredients for the 30 min. autolyze. Salt is added thereafter.

(Edit: I've increased % of prefermented flour to 17%)

I loved the idea of Rye Sour being the leavining agent, as it enhances sour flavor, which it did, and allows for faster bulk and final fermentation.

I stretched and folded the dough letter wise, as opposed to the S&F in the bowl in my previous attempt. The Dough was very smooth and lively, and developed extremely fast!

The Flavor was, as expected, slightly sour. This bread fairs really well if cold retarded for 8-12 hours. I like Rye sour levain, as it refreshes faster with 1-2 refreshments, as opposed to white levain's 3 refreshments.

 

Comments

lumos's picture
lumos

LOL I printed out that blog entry when it was posted! (Belated THANKS! to Hans. :) ) ....and got buried somewhere in my humougous 'Bread to Bake' file...... (sorry, Hans....)

Clearly fogotten it's made with rye sour.  It's ideal bread to try now for rye sour is my current 'order of the day.'

Thank you so much for reminding me of the wonderful bread, Khalid.  Your crumb is so beautiful, it really made me feel I need to bake this! I love the way the top exploded through the scorings.

Did you cold retard this one?

lumos

 

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Khalid,

Tremendously bold volume in this bread; it looks very good indeed!

Best wishes

Andy

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

really gives much more taste to the bread, while when added as a last minute ingredient it doesn't shine (at least it never shined for me). Your loaf  has really exploded, very nice texture and volume, Khalid.

I wonder how can Hans Joakim obtain that fantastic color in the crumb. It's unique.

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Hello Khalid,
Lovely dark crust and great height on this boule! Love its rustic appearance.
:^) from breadsong

wally's picture
wally

Khalid, your rye starter must be very happy from the looks of the loaf.  What oven spring you got!  Nice looking crumb too.  I'll be the flavor is nice.  I like using both a white and rye starter on mine, but mostly so I can give them both a workout and free them from their refrigerator prison.

Nice bake,

Larry

wassisname's picture
wassisname

I, too, have this formula copied into my collection.  The rye starter version has become my favorite pain au levain.  You certainly did justice to Hans' formula, Khalid! 

Marcus

Syd's picture
Syd

Yes, rye in the preferment can more than halve the bulk ferment time.  I underestimated its effect this weekend and overproved my loaf by at least an hour.  When I slashed, it sighed like a tired balloon and never rose again at all. 

But you got a beauty there Khalid.  Lovely volume.  Did you find the sour flavour more pronounced on day 2?

Syd

varda's picture
varda

You got fantastic results.    It seems the rye preferment is well worth trying.   Looks like you got tremendous loft.  -Varda

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

...and what a crumb! A beauty, Khalid!

I've made this one of Hans' too, and lemme tell ya, mine wasn't anywhere near as good-lookin' as yours. As you say, lovely flavour with a distinct but not overbearing sour tang.

Cheers
Ross

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thank you Lumos! No, I have not cold retarded it. I would, if only i hadn't had duty the other day. Do bake it, Lumos.. Rye preferments are very active and promise great flavor.

Thank you , Andy! The increase in % of preferment from Hans's 14% to 17% did the trick.

Thank you, Nico! Hans lives in Norway, and has access to myriad grades of Wheat and Rye flours. Indoor Lighting, also, does contribute to the color of crumb.

Thanks, breadsong!

Thank you Larry. It was a very happy sour,even so when i refrigerated it overnight after being refreshed and used it out of the fridge to inoculate my levain.

Thanks, Marcus! always admiring your Wholegrain bakes!

Thank you, Syd! Yes, the sourness, and crumb color where enhanced after 12 hours. Crumb is now darker... more Rye-ish.

Thank you , varda! Do try baking with it.. The flavor is at its best after 12 hours from baking time. Lovely with fermented cheeses.. and cold cuts.. very very tasty!

Thank you Ross! I found that 14% prefermented flour used by Hans makes the fermentation time longer. I increased my prefermented flour to 17%. It works like a charm! Do try it again.. :)

 

 

hansjoakim's picture
hansjoakim

What a fabulous bake, Khalid! It looks stellar! I'm very proud and feel honoured that you've had another go at the formula. And I love when someone tweaks formulas; modify the ingredient composition and fermentation times to best suit your own preference. Flours, starters, humidity, ambient temperature etc. all play important parts in the way the dough feels and behaves, so I think formulas should only serve as rough starting points. On my own part, I feel I get slightly improved by results when the overall hydration is increased to 72% - 73%. I've not tried varying the DDT much yet, but perhaps there could be something to gain in e.g. the flavour department by trying a slightly lower DDT and longer bulk fermentation?

Once again, brilliant bake Khalid, and thanks so much :)

All the best, Hans Joakim

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thank you Hans. I've been always inspired and impressed by your culinary skills, both in bread and Pastry. The honor is all mine :) What started as excess sour Rye you had, has turned into a recipe i always bake. My family loves this bread, so thank you once again!

hansjoakim's picture
hansjoakim

I'm thrilled to hear that, Khalid. Thanks, and keep on baking my friend!

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks, Hans. Why aren't you posting in TFL lately? we miss your posts.

I forgot to mention something about the bake above. I placed the proofed loaves between two preheated baking stones. The thicker stone was on the bottom rack, and the thinner on the top. I find that better oven spring results from this setup. Just wanted to share some tricks.

All the best,

Khalid

lumos's picture
lumos

Hi, Khalid! One question, if I may.

Was the  increased  preferment flour all rye (= increasing the percentage of rye)  or did you use white/ww flour for the increased part to keep the overall ratio of flours the same as the original formula? 

lumos

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Hi, lumos,

Good question. I've increased only Rye, so all the Rye is in the preferment. I have made a calculation erroe, as the Percentage of prefermented flour was increased from Hans's recipe (14%) to (17%) only , not 22%!

I've edit the same above.

 

lumos's picture
lumos

Thanks for reply, Khalid.

So, am I right in thinking that the only change you made was increase of rye flour,  while you kept the amount of flours in the main dough as same as Hans's  formula, making the resultant dough slightly larger than the original?

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thats right, Lumos.

lumos's picture
lumos

  It's really good to hear that. I've already started preparing it on that presumption.  :p 

I fed the rye sour for the second time just now, hoping to be able to start mixing the final dough ingredients this evening, proofing overnight to bake tomorrow morning. It won't be exactly the same as yours or Hans because I tweaked the formula a bit. (Can't help.....:p)

I'll report you back how it turned out.  Thanks for all your help, Khalid. :)

lumos

Mebake's picture
Mebake

A word of caution, Lumos.., mind the rate at which your dough ferments! This Rye preferment is wicked fast ferment. If your % of preferm. is 17% like mine, allow it only 1 hour bulk fermentation at room temperature (fold at 30 min.) after that, it is best to retard immedietly. I just baked a batch today, and it fermented very fast in the fridge, that i had to S&F it to extend its life. I bulk fermented for 2 hours (with 45min. autolyze) , makes it 2.45 hours!

My sour was quite active, but i assume that yours is too.

Best wishes

lumos's picture
lumos

Hi again,  Khalid. :)

Thanks for the warning. Yeah, I've noticed rye sour tends ferment faster than wheat flour sourdough from my last few experiences.....but no today! It's so cold in England today, I think I need to wait for another two hrs or so until my rye sour is ready. 

I made a few loaves with higher percentage of rye sour than this one last week (warmer than today)  which had 8 hr retard , so I think I'll be alright with this one.....though I may have to wait until late tonight for the rye sour to ripe enough.....

Our family friend (also our neighbour) is having a garden party today (= everyone freezing) , so I'm to-and-froing from their garden to my kitchen every 30 minutes to watch my rye sour.  All the guests who don't know my bread obsession must be thinking I'm mad.....and all my neighbour who knows my bread obsession know I'm mad. :p

varda's picture
varda

Sorry to interrupt this discussion, but I did a double take when I read your "wicked fast ferment."   I understand that rye starter does give a wicked fast ferment, but I was curious how you came upon that particular use of wicked as an emphasizing adjective.    I thought it was peculiar to the English spoken in the immediate Boston area, where I have lived for 30+ years.   I hadn't heard it before I got to this area (from the midwest region of the US) and it took me a good 20 years to pick it up myself.   Has it spread way beyond Boston in the last few years?  Ok, enough linguistics (?) and back to bread.  -Varda 

lumos's picture
lumos

We use 'wicked' a lot in UK, too.   Me think it arrived from England with Mayflower and managed to reach Boston but hasn't quite spread to other parts of colony US yet. :p

 

varda's picture
varda

Lumos, It is somewhat hard to imagine the Puritans throwing around "man I got wicked drunk last night" (traditional Boston usage) but then again they drank ale for breakfast, so who knows.  -Varda

lumos's picture
lumos

LOL That sounds like Monty Python's version of Puritans. Should I feel bad for wishing they were really like that? :p

Is that how you use it in Boston? Here, it's more or less same meaning/usage as 'cool,' like 'That's wicked!' which is what Urban Dictionary says, too....though it also claims it started in Boston.  I think it was written by a Bostonian who wants to deny the colonial past.  :p

 

AnnaInMD's picture
AnnaInMD

I will have to try it as well, I love rye and a fast ferment is just the ticket for this Type A woman :)

anna

 

lumos's picture
lumos

OK, done it!

Will blog about it later, after I slice it open to reveal the inside tomorrow morning. (Got to show the obligatory crumb pics. ;) )

Thank you very much for your kind advice and help, Khalid! :)

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thank you Anna. It is a very flavorful bread.

 

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Wow! Lumos, those breads look absolutely beautiful. I like your scoring, too. Can't wait to see your blog.