The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Question about typical rising time

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jonesiegal's picture
jonesiegal

Question about typical rising time

What is the typical time it takes the bread to rise after mixing up the bread but before punching it down and seperating it into bread pans for the second rising?

I mixed up the bread yesterday morning.  It has been 11 hours but the bread has not even doubled yet and I was expecting it to triple by now.

I have it in a bowl in a warm area with a damp cloth over it.  I am a bit disapointed; I expect to be able to bake it this morning.  Is it possible to over mix it and keep it from rising?

dwcoleman's picture
dwcoleman

If you overmix the dough it will break down, it sounds like one of the following scenarios happened.

a) too much salt and it killed the yeast

b) no yeast added by mistake

c) your yeast is bad

Test your yeast by proofing it in some water + sugar, if it foams you can rule out C.

G-man's picture
G-man

In this case, I doubt if no added yeast was the problem. Or, to be more accurate, since this is about sourdough (I assume, being in the Sourdough and Starters forum) there wouldn't be packaged yeast anyway. :)

 Nonetheless, there is something to that statement.

Depending on conditions like temperature and the activity level of your starter, you should have seen some activity in that period of time.

Tell us a bit about your starter and your method. What do you feed your starter? Under what conditions is it kept when not in active use? How old is it? How active is it when it is fed? How much did you use in the recipe you're using? What recipe are you using, for that matter?

It sounds like your starter may simply be too young/weak to raise dough. Usually mature starters will do something to the dough even if there's something wrong with the starter and that something is undesirable.

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

I believe you recently posted that your starter was about a week old.

(In general), it really takes a little longer than that before a starter is really ready to start raising dough in a decent and consistent(timewise) fashion.

What you are experiencing is probably somewhat typical and expected, at this stage. Give it 2-3 weeks at least. Even then, it may be a few more weeks until it is most effective in it's ability to raise.

 

jonesiegal's picture
jonesiegal

Ok,

It has started to rise a bit so I guess I can just wait and see if it will rise sufecently.

I did use my sourdough starter.  I fed it yesterday morning at had plenty of activity out of the yeast.

I don't believe it was the salt, I followed my recipe.

I expect it is becuase the starter is young but I have had good luck with it so far so this was a bit disapointing.  We have had soem drastic weather changes in humidity and heat recently so that too I guess could have something to do with it.

If it does not rise sufecently what can I do with it?  Make long loafs and bake out of the bread pans?  Will I get some acceptable results?

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Some have had pretty good luck by kneading in a little instant yeast.

jonesiegal's picture
jonesiegal

I mixed up some fresh yeast and mixed it in with the bread.  So far it looks like it might work but I am getting some large bubbles while rising.  Oh well, I m not going to complaine if it rises at all I will be happy.

placebo's picture
placebo

There are other reasons that could explain why your dough is not rising as expected, but without specific details on the recipe you used and your method, it's difficult to pinpoint the problem or problems. 

chickpea00101's picture
chickpea00101

I had the same issue last night. My dough didn't seem to rise much in the allotted amount of time. Rather than stay up all night, I decided to bake anyway. The loaf that came out tastes good, but is as dense as a bagel. My starter is 2 weeks old. It was fed daily for the first week and spent most of last week in the refrigerator with only one or two feedings. It was fed twice at room temp starting a few days ago. By each feeding the starter has bubbled up from the last one and doesn't smell unpleasant at all (but lemony sour, not beery as commercial yeast does). I don't know if I just have a lame batch of wild yeasts that will never be strong enough to raise a loaf or if that can get better with time. Any idea? I don't want to keep wasting flour on it if it's a dud. 

placebo's picture
placebo

It's generally believed that the starter matures and develops over the first month or so. Putting it in the refrigerator after just one week stops the process in its tracks. Your starter is essentially just over a week old. You want to keep it at room temperature, with two feedings per day, and let it grow up.

To cut down on the amount of flour you use, keep a relatively small amount of starter. If you're not baking regularly, there's no reason to keep so much starter so that you use, say, a cup of flour at each feeding. Also, you can use the discarded portion of the starter to make sourdough pancakes, waffles, etc., so that you're not simply letting all the flour go to waste.

As far as your bread goes, we need more info on the recipe you followed and your method.

chickpea00101's picture
chickpea00101

I started out with a new 100% hydration starter fed a combination of rye and all purpose flours (for the first week - just all purpose after that). Before it went into the fridge I converted it to something close to 50% hydration (I was intending to bake that day but wasn't able to). 

My recipe for the bread was Basil's Pain au Levain in Daniel Leader's Bread Alone.  It involves roughly 2 parts levain to 2 parts water and 3 parts flour, kneaded 15 minutes, fermented 2 hours at about 75-80 degrees, rested for half an hour, shaped, and proofed for another 2 hours at the same temp before baking. I've successfully made that one several times before - but using Leader's starter recipe which involves a pinch of commercial yeast. I got the feeling I was cheating by doing that so I tried to go for a completely wild starter. 

I had assumed the starter would be ready for baking by this point, but I suppose I did notice that it is slow to bubble up. If I were to feed it twice a day I feel like it'd be premature. I'm not sure I understand why/how - once a culture is established and is able to propagate itself enough to need regular feeding - it would become faster or stronger. Anybody familiar with yeast biology on that level? 

placebo's picture
placebo

The advantage of commercial yeast is that it's predictable and fast. With wild yeast, rising will take a lot longer, and how long it takes depends on the individual starter. You have to take time estimates in sourdough recipes as really rough guidelines as to what to expect. (For example, one recipe I use says the first fermentation will probably take 3.5 to 4.0 hours; on occasion, I've had to wait up to 5.5 hours.) You'll have to learn how to go by how the dough looks and feels to decide when it's done proofing. So it could just be your expectations were off, and you just needed to give the dough more time to ferment.

How long does your starter take to peak after a feeding? Most find their 100%-hydration starter peaks within the next 8 hours, so feeding it every 12 hours shouldn't feel premature. The low hydration could make a difference; perhaps someone who has a low-hydration starter will chime in. 

 

jonesiegal's picture
jonesiegal

I am baking later today no matter what.  We shall see how it turns out.

G-man's picture
G-man

Rushing a sourdough starter yields poor results nearly always.

Patience is the key word. Consider waiting for nature to take its course, otherwise you lose the benefits of a natural sourdough starter.