The Fresh Loaf

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Hybrid bread using AYW starter, AYW and Sourdough Starter

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codruta's picture
codruta

Hybrid bread using AYW starter, AYW and Sourdough Starter

This was the first time I used Yeast Water (almost 2 weks ago) Since then, I made 6 loaves, using different formulas, but I wanted to share with you this one, because it has a funny shape, it was my first attempt at using yeast water, and because it was particularly good. My apple yeast water looks like this: http://codrudepaine.ro/2011/08/mere-soare-povesti-si-o-jucarie-noua/.

The overall formula was:

- Bread flour: 273 g ……………………………… 91%
- Whole wheat flour: 27 g …………………….. 9%
- Water: 57 g ………………………………………. 19%
- AYW: 147 g ……………………………….......... 49%
- Salt: 6 g ………………………………………….… 2%
Amount of dough: 510 g ……………………….. 170%

Final dough:

- Bread flour: 255 g
- Water: 39 g
- YW: 120 g
- Levain 100%: 36 g
- AYW whole wheat starter 100%: 54 g
- Sare: 6 g

I made the build for the levain and for the YW starter  8 hours before the final dough.

I mixed by hand, with folds in the bowl, than I did 3 S-F at 30 min interval, for a first fermentation of 2 hours. I shaped it, and proofed it for 5h:30min (3h in the fridge, 1h:30min at room temperature). I baked it with steam for 15 min, then without steam for 20-25 min.

I wasn't sure if my yeast water is good, that's why I made such a small loaf, to test it (which was not a smart idea, beacause we were four peoples at the table). We ate it with a-kind-of-babaganoush ( it's an eggplant dish, a romanian version, that doesn't use tahini, only olive oil and seasonings), cheese and tomatoes. This bread was a hit, everyone loved it. The hint of apples was discrete, the crumb was rather sweet than sour.

You can see more about it an my romanian blog,  Apa.Faina.Sare.

codruta

Comments

lumos's picture
lumos

You say funny shape, but it still looks beautiful enough for me.

The crumb looks really lovely, open and yummy!  Thanks for sharing this, codruta. :)

best wishes,

lumos

 

Syd's picture
Syd

Lovely open crumb, Codruta and nice thin, crisp crust.

Best,

Syd

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

I've been experimenting with yeast water but my results are nowhere close to what you have achieved. I have been studying your recipe but did quite understand the maths.  The overall flour used was 300 grms (bf+ww) but in your final dough, you indicated 255 g only.  On studying the formula carefully, my understanding is that you used 27 grms of wwf plus 27 grms yw, and for the levain you used 18 grm of bf plus 18 grms of water.  Can you pls tell me your  procedures for the levain and starter?    Am I correct to think that you make a yw starter with the 27 grms of ww and yw, wait for it to double/triple and then add the 18 grms each of water and bf  levain and when this too has doubled, it is ready to add to final dough? I have not use yw with water when mixing the dough as I afraid too much of the yw would taste too strong but it seems that its fine.  (My yeast water tastes a little sour and salty).    What was your oven temp or did you use a WFO?  Many thanks in advance for your advice.  Best, - Judy

codruta's picture
codruta

Judy, nice to hear from you again.

I did the sourdough starter (levain) and the YW starter separately (6-8 hours before, as it was very hot that day, depending on the temperture you might need longer time, 12 hours at 21C). The levain was build from 4g mature sourdough starter, with 16 g water and 16 g flour. The YW starter was made from 27 g AYW plus 27g whole wheat flour. I must note here, that  after 6-8 hours, the levain was ready to use, but the yw starter was not doubled in volume yet (that's when I decided to add YW for the dough, as an assurance that the bread will rise)

It was my first experiment with yeast water, I didn't know exactly what to expect of it or what to do with it. The result was a loaf to remember! My boyfriend reffers to it as "one of the best breads I've ever made/he ever ate". I think my YW is mild in taste (I taste it and it has a very pleasant apple taste, a bit sweet, a bit acidic, but no sour, salty, or tangy taste). I keep my YW in the fridge and once a week I discard half of it (or even more) and I add tap water (I use tap water for all the breads I make, and it seems fine), I replace the slices of apple with new ones, and I jet the jar on my kitchen counter till next day, when the water has a lot of bubbles on top, and then I put it in the fridge. Ever now and then, when I remember, I shake the jar vigorously.

After this bread, I made others bread with YW, or hybrids (sourdough and YW), and I think I like the taste better when I use a preferment (YW starter, or YW starter and sourdough-in a small amount) than when I use the direct method with just YW, and no preferments. My mother prefers the breads I make with direct method, because the crumb is softer and fluffy.

I have a regular gas oven, nothing special, I don't have a thermometer for it, but I always preheat it 40-50 min, with the baking stone inside, at maximum level (what is "maximum" in degree Celsius I don't know).

Please let me know if my answer is good for you... I'm a begginer with YW, and I'm experimenting for the fun of it, so... comments are highly appreciated.

best wishes.

lumos's picture
lumos

Hi, Codruta,

I keep my YW in the fridge and once a week I discard half of it (or even more) and I add tap water (I use tap water for all the breads I make, and it seems fine), I replace the slices of apple with new ones, and I jet the jar on my kitchen counter till next day, when the water has a lot of bubbles on top, and then I put it in the fridge. Ever now and then, when I remember, I shake the jar vigorously.

No need to feed the YW.  You can keep it up to 1 month (fresh fruits based) to 1 months (dried fruits based, like raisins) in a fridge without any problem.  Some people remove fresh fruits afte the water becomes active, but others keep it until the end. With dried fruits, it can stay in the water till the end.

After that period or when you used up the batch you made, you need to make new batch.  If there's still some YW left, you can add it to the new batch when you start making it, which makes the resultant second batch become more active, more quickly, of course.

The whole point (or almost the whole of it. :p) is that, unlike flour-based mother starter, you can leave it without feeding so often. Also, it's better to leave it for that period (above) because, just like fruit liquer, the flavour develops longer you keep untouched. The natural sugar in the fruits/dried fruits would keep on feeding the water during the period, so don't worry. ;)

best wishes,

lumos

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

Should a yeast water be fizzy at all times even when it's cold or fizzy only when it has had a good feeding.?   My yw is flat when it's cold and as mentioned to Codruta above, it get very cloudy (when shaken) with a thick layer of dust.  I'm not sure if this could the result of my constant feeding, thereby creating too much dust, the smell is nice but does not taste too good in my opinion.   I was under the impression that yw needs also to be fed regularly  or it will lose its strength.  Many thanks.

Judy

lumos's picture
lumos

As far I could find on the articles or books in Japan written about yeast water, you just don't need to feed it throught out the above period. After the initial few days until it starts to be active and useable, you just leave it in a fridge until the end during which time the natural sugar in the ingredients just keep on feeding itself gradually. That's why if you use dried fruits, it keeps and survives better if the dried fruits are left in the water even if they look very shrinked-up and nothing left inside.  In case of using fresh fruits, some people prefer to strain it out to lower the risk of the water getting cloudy or mouldy, but others (more of them) just leave them in the water until the end.  

After those period, you need to make a new batch with new ingredients (as explained above),  but then again you can use it without worrying about maintening it as you'd do with flour-based mother starter,  for 1-2 months.

So just consider yeast water as 'Mother Starter'  that's doesn't need to be maintained but only have a life span of 1-2 months.  That's why a lot of Japanese homebakers who like using yeast water keep several bottles of them in the fridge, all with a different ingredients, too enjoy different aroma they faintly create in the resultant bread.

Also that's the reason there're many formulae which mix yeast water directly (=without making starter with it first) into the dough ingredients as a part of water were  born.  It was, initially,  the way of using up the excess yeast water before its 'best end date,'  though these days that method has become one of standard ways of using YW, because it creates bread with lighter texture and more prominent aroma from the ingredients used.

lumos

 

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

Your bread is not a bread that I can easily follow as I don't have a sourdough starter (although I'm still trying to start one from scratch).  Like you, I keep my yw  in the fridge,  feed them once a week with 10+ pcs of sultanas and a small squeeze of honey and do the same for my apricot yw with a few small pcs of dried apricots.  My yeast water is very cloudy when I shake it as it has a thick layer of white dust at the bottom,  I'm not sure if this a good thing or not .     I use room temp. boiled water.  I also leave my fruit in the jar but occasionally throw out some to make room for the new fruits. I don't throw out the water though, when the level is low, I just add a little bit more raisins and top it up with more water.  I have been using the same yeast water since April but I find that my bread gets a bit sticky in the middle after a few days and doesn't smell so nice but I enjoy experimenting with it. 

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Yummy, Corduta! I'd have a slice of this any time :) nice crumb, and crust, the slash opened gracefully, too!

Beautiful.

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

The crust, crumb, shape and gringe all make for a very beautiful loaf.  The AYW sounds like it made a delicious complex flavor to your loaf.  I've never tried fruity yeast waters..but the apple puts me over the edge..it sounds like a delicious combination!

Sylvia

codruta's picture
codruta

thank you! You are all so kind!

Khalid, I would give a slice (especially if I get back a slice of one of your gorgeous loafs) :)

Syd, thank you!

Sylvia, you should try Fruit Yeast Water... I don't know about other fruits, but apples are very good for my taste. I like the combination of YW and sourdough, it isreally worth the trouble!

codruta

ananda's picture
ananda

Lovely loaf codruta!

The cut has really opened the loaf up, and the crumb is perfect.

I'm sure it's really tasty too

Best wishes

Andy