The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

60% Whole Durum Boule

varda's picture
varda

60% Whole Durum Boule

Continuing toward my goal of baking a non-brick-like Altamura type loaf with 100% Atta whole durum flour, today I increased durum flour percentage to 60%.   My formula is exactly the same as my last attempt which used 40% durum flour  with the exception of the difference in flour, but I changed process and technique a bit.   Last time I did an overnight retard.   This was mainly a scheduling issue but of course had an impact on the bread.   This time, I did not retard overnight, but the dough did have a 1.5 hour refrigerator sojourn in the middle of bulk ferment again due to scheduling.   The technique change was that rather than doing 4 in the bowl stretch and folds, I did 4 in the bowl scoop and pats.   This means I rotated around the bowl several times using three fingers to gently scoop the dough on the edge of the bowl into the middle and then pat the dough twice (that is scoop, pat, pat, scoop, pat, pat, etc.)    Franko said in comments to his post  "From what I've learned so far, this flour needs to be coaxed into forming a good structure for trapping CO2" and by patting I was hoping to encourage such a structure without tearing the gluten strands.   This patting idea came from Akiko in her last baguette post.   I didn't understand it when I read about it in her post, and I still don't understand it, but I found this dough even more manageable and well behaved than the 40% version that I posted about a few days ago.

 

I am encouraged by the results and plan to continue on to 80% on my next attempt.

Comments

lumos's picture
lumos

That's lovely crumb, Varda! Can't believe it contains as high as 60% whole Atta. Maybe a good evidence Atta's gluten is weaker than normal WW gluten.

This patting idea came from Akiko in her last baguette post. I didn't understand it when I read about it in her post, and I still don't understand it,

I haven't read Akiko's post in question, so I could be wrong, but if it was a baguette recipe,  it's the way pro-bakers in Japan distribute CO2 throughout the baguette dough during the shaping process, so that you'd get large, random holes evenly throughout the baguette, just like this.  That seems to be quite a common and popular method in baguette making among the bakers (both pros and amateurs) over there lately, but if she was talking about other types of breads or about a different stage during dough making process, I don't know what's the purpose of it.

Look forward to seeing and praising your 80% Atta, soon!  .....no pressure, though...:p

BW

lumos

varda's picture
varda

Thanks for your comments.   I added a link to Akiko's post.   As you say she uses this patting during the shaping process.   I used it during bulk ferment.   I have a question - how do you get rid of the URL when you add a link?   Everyone does it and you do it in your comment "just like this" but I can't figure it out.   Thanks again.  -Varda

lumos's picture
lumos

Thanks, Varda.

Yeah, during baguette shaping stage was the only time I've seen bakers patting the dough, almost always at the first stage of final shaping when you're coaxing the pre-shaped dough into a rectanglar and making the thickness even; before you start folding the dough. So I'm afraid I don't think patting it during bulk-fermentation does very much to the dough....though a mental picture of you patting your dough lovingly is really adorable! ;)

Re; URL link thingy.... when you're typing your post, you see several icons above your text box, one of them looks like a few linked rings of chain (or number '8' lying horizontally). That's the icon for hyperlinking.  When you want to 'conceal' URL (=hyperlink) to text or picture, you highlight the text/pic (by left-click+hold+drag) and then you click on that hyperlink icon above the text box. A new window will pop up, so you just copy&paste whatever URL  you want to hyperlink to in the top box (next to 'Link URL') and click OK below. That's it.  And if you want to break a hyperlink, you highlight the relevant text/pic and this time you click on the icon (looks like broken chain) which is on the right of the hyperlink icon. :)

lumos

varda's picture
varda

of little faith.   I think my patting was the decisive element.   I followed your directions and the pop-up box appears, but I can't get it to work.   Thanks for the detailed explanation.  I'll try to figure it out.   -Varda

lumos's picture
lumos

Yeah, I'm an atheist. :p

But I can still share my unreligious but completely practical knowledge of forum techniques with you.  To be able to use those icons above your text box (probably you can not see any of them at the moment), click 'Enable rich-text' just below the text box (in brown).  Voila! See those icons suddenly appeared? (hopefully.....) That's a new religious icons for you. ;)

BW

lumos

varda's picture
varda

I edited it to include the nicely hidden URLs.   Thanks a lot!  -Varda

lumos's picture
lumos

Well done! Congratulations, the Faithful one! ;)

lumos

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Varda,

When I looked at the picture of your loaf the first thing that struck me was the beauty in you scoring and color of it's crust.

When I read through your process I was intrigued with how you handled the dough - your turning and patting routine….

Made me think that part of the reason, besides your talent as a baker, it came out so well was due to your TLC with your gentle little pats….dough being a living organism….it surly responded to the magic touch of your hands :-)

Now to see how your next loaf responds. Me thinks it will be a beauty too.

Janet

varda's picture
varda

Well we home bakers can afford to give dough a bit of TLC since we don't have huge volumes and production schedules to abide by.   It makes it fun!   Thanks so much for your comments.   -Varda

asfolks's picture
asfolks

Is there much difference in taste between the 40% and the 60%?

varda's picture
varda

They are both tasty, but the 60% has a much stronger flavor from the added durum.   It is very noticeable, although I don't have them side by side.  Thanks for your comments.  -Varda

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi Varda,

It's a good looking loaf you have here, no doubt about it, but I'm torn between the crumb on your 40% and this one. I quite like the larger, open cell structure on this one, but I lean towards the more even structure of the 40% as a personal preference, being that sandwiches are what I primarily use bread for. One of the things I found during the BF of the Altamura dough I mixed is that the strength and resistance of the dough increased incrementally after each fold in the bowl. This is to be expected, but the coaxing I mentioned was a series of S&F's that became progressively stronger as the dough gained strength during BF. This procedure should at least render a higher profile of the baked loaf, if that's something you're looking for, but it will likely result in a less holey crumb structure. All a matter of personal preference to be sure, and as you appear to be getting a better feel for the dough with each new bake, it's just a matter of deciding what style of loaf you're after.

This series of posts on your "Attamura project" have been fascinating, informative, and have generated a good deal of discussion and exchange of ideas between several of us TFL'rs, possibly at the risk of hijacking your post, but I think it's been a great example of the value of this forum as a learning tool. Thanks for keeping us posted and sharing your progress!

Best wishes,

Franko

varda's picture
varda

Franko,   Your comment teaches me a lot right there.   I tend to eat bread for breakfast (say with butter, jelly, oo, or whatever) and for dinner as an accompaniment but strangely rarely for lunch in sandwiches.   So I can go either way on the open versus even crumb as far as taste goes.  But it's interesting to understand what the factors are and how you would get one versus the other.    I was extremely gentle in my scooping and patting (which I think I should have described as tapping rather than patting - my dough is not a pet or a small child) but I think I was able to get some decent dough development even so.   It's definitely something to think about as I go to 80%.   I enjoyed your discussion with Andy and didn't view it as hijacking.   It's only hijacking if it's boring.   Thanks for your comments.  -Varda

sam's picture
sam

Nice bread varda,  and I like your persistence on working on getting it right / your satisfaction.

varda's picture
varda

Thanks for your comments.  This is a fun project.  -Varda

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Varda, What a success at 60%. Can't wait to see 80%.
:^) from breadsong

varda's picture
varda

Breadsong.   Hope you are doing well.  -Varda

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Varda,

lovely gelatinised crumb.   I'm sure the bread is very tasty.

So, are you going for 80%?   Reading between the lines of Franko's post, I'd be looking at 50% if it were me.   But that's because I'd be applying similar criteria to Franko, and that may very well not be what you are seeking to achieve.

I'm enjoying following your experiment

Best wishes

Andy

varda's picture
varda

Hi Andy,  I am going for 100% to see if I can replicate (that's the wrong word - perhaps simulate?) Franko's Altamura with Atta.   But when / if I get there, I would probably go back down to 60% in the future.    This is just a delicious bread - even better this morning than yesterday.   The really hard part for me will be the 100% version because I'll have to give up my regular wheat starter to get 100% Atta.   At 80% I can still use wheat starter and only add Atta to the final dough.   I have never been very successful at making whole grain starters.   They're tricky.   So this will be just another attempt to master a difficult aspect of breadmaking.  Thanks for your comments.   -Varda

ananda's picture
ananda

Yes, I can imagine that Varda.

You can expect rapid fermentation and breakdown in the culture on account of it being high extraction, as well as what you and Franko have noted about the speed durum normally ferments at anyway.

I guess the fermentation time given to the leaven, the amount used in the final dough plus the fine detail such as hydration of the leaven and temperature regime used are all going to come into play.

You seem well on top of it at the moment; good luck!

BW

Andy

varda's picture
varda

Andy,   Your comment can serve as a handy checklist for what to look out for.    Thanks for your support.  -Varda