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Submitted by AliB on July 28, 2011 - 5:02pm Now eating wheat again....Hub and I have had to eat gluten-free for the last three years. I discovered my IBS, raging restless legs and ultimate virtual digestive collapse was due to gluten, and my Hub followed me as an experiment, and his severe brain-fog, depression and acute irritability all went away to our amazement. I have been on a quest though to try and figure out why. Why are so many people becoming intolerant of what is such a basic food group? How come Celiac Disease and Gluten Intolerance were virtually unheard of 50 or 60 years ago? What I have recently discovered is very profound. It is because modern processed wheat products are not prepared properly. All grains and seeds - grains, seeds, legumes, nuts, etc., contain phytates. These are natural nutrient-blockers, designed to prevent the seed from germinating prematurely. They have to be neutralized by phytase which is an enzyme, and that can only be triggered by prolonged contact with moisture. All seeds and grains should be soaked for 12 - 24 hours prior to use. The fact that they aren't in modern commercially-made food explains why many who are gluten intolerant also go on to develop problems with other grains - corn, soy, and other bean flours. The plethora of unprepared wheat and other grains that are in modern processed food is creating a worldwide undermining of our nutritional strength. The un-neutralized phytates are preventing us from absorbing nutrition properly. Without enough nutrition, the body cannot function as it should - hence the rapid escalation of multiple health issues...... The other problem is that modern bread is developed too fast for the chemical interactions between the flour, the yeast and the water to convert the gluten and other proteins into substances our bodies can deal with. Improperly converted gluten becomes toxic in the body and can trigger all sorts of health problems - which is why so many are gluten intolerant - and why GI is linked to so many different diseases and ailments. Traditional bakers would typically prepare the dough the afternoon or early evening before, leave it to prove overnight, and bake it the bread the following morning - giving the dough well above the minimum 6 hours needed for the interaction to take place. Commercially-made breads - and even many home-baked breads, are usually completed within two or three hours - and some is even finished within 45 minutes! Is it any wonder, in light of this that so many people are developing problems with the grains? So, I did an experiment and made some long-proved bread to see what would happen. Neither of us reacted to it at all. I now make my bread in the afternoon, leave it to prove overnight and bake it the next day - usually a process that takes around 17 hours from start to finish. I also find that I need hardly any yeast - a bare quarter teaspoonful suffices, because the yeast has plenty of time to work its way through the dough. If I could find a local source of whole un-milled grains here in South Wales, UK, to grind at home freshly for each loaf, I would be in my element. If anyone knows of anywhere, I would be very grateful. Ali.
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Link for a UK flour source
http://www.shipton-mill.com/flour-direct-shop
This is a source that several UK Fresh Loafers have talked about.I don't know if they sell wheat berries (unground wheat) or if they sell just flour. They are spoken of as a source of excellent, fresh flour. A direct inquiry for more sources could be made in the "Grains and Milling " forum here on the Fresh Loaf. You may get more response.
Allergies/reactions,esp to food, are never simple or single sourced and frequently are caused by a cascade or conglomeration of events. Glad you are able to enjoy bread again, for whatever reason.
Have delicious fun!
Shipton is great, but not
Shipton is great, but not sure if they sell unmilled-grain to retail. It's not on their online shop catalugue. But I know their customer service is very helpful, so if you email them, maybe they try to accommodate your need or if not, at least they may be able to point you in the right direction. (I got very good advice an info about flours from their miller while ago)
Also, if you google with 'quality bread flour' or 'traditional mill' or 'unmilled grain for retail' or whatever comes up to your mind, you'll probably get lots of hits for other independent, good millers. They may not be necessarily near where you are, but many of them do mail order service.
Thanks for the advice - may
Thanks for the advice - may try Shipton in the future, however, I discovered last night that Winchester City Mill is now operating through The National Trust, and rang them this morning. They were able to supply me with some grain - and it happens that my daughter is down that way this weekend and was able to pick it up today - so I am sorted - for a while.
As far as different things being to blame for gluten intolerance, I am not sure that I believe that. I have done an awful lot of research and spoken to an awful lot of people over the last three years, and have come to realise that most - if not all- disease is due to a combination of malnutrition and damaging food.
We all have some degree of malnutrition whether we realise it or not. Very healthy people just don't get sick. some may say - how can we possibly be malnourished when we have food coming out of our ears??? The answer sadly is, that much of todays highly processed food - and drink - actually robs the body of far more than it ever gives to it - gradually putting us into nutritional deficit. So much of it is calories without nutrition - or calories with nutrition that is going in one end and out the other due to nutrient blockers. Without enough vitamins, minerals, trace elements and enzymes we are in trouble.....
For the last 15 months I have been on a 'healing diet' - designed to remove the bad food and gradually replace the deficit (real healing doesn't happen overnight) - and have seen health problems that have been with me for years slowly heal and disappear. All the hundreds of other people on the diet are experiencing the same thing so I know it isn't just me.
The fact that neither I nor my husband react to the bread any more is just amazing. It is not that we have particularly healed - yet, but because the long proving converts and pre-digests the gluten so it is no longer toxic. Our ancient ancestors knew what they were doing with the soaking and long proving and other preparations they made to their food. We have thrown these ancient wisdoms out of the window in favour of speed, profit and modern 'progress', and it isn't doing us any good at all.....
Your second paragraph says it all!
You said:
As far as different things being to blame for gluten intolerance, I am not sure that I believe that. I have done an awful lot of research and spoken to an awful lot of people over the last three years, and have come to realise that most - if not all- disease is due to a combination of malnutrition and damaging food.
I'm with you, 100%. I'm over 60 and I always manage to get people sniggering when I say that steaks, pizzas and hamburgers were 'healthy' foods, way back, when I was a boy...they can laugh, but it's still true! So many things have changed in the past 40-50 years...governments around the world demanding that food be 'plentiful and cheap', especially in the 1970's, meant that grass-eating cattle were force-fed on corn and soy (and anti-biotics to stop the inevitable BAD bacterial reactions in their guts...); the hybridization of vegetable crops for 'yield' rather than nutritional benefit to the consumer; the introduction of 'sweeter-than-regular-sugar' products; all done for 'economic' reasons have changed the human diet, almost worldwide.
In India and several middle-eastern countries, the medical authorities claim that diabetes mellitus (type 2) is their largest health problem these days. That may be OK, in some ways—people, even the poorest, are living longer than they ever did before and most of them can reasonably expect to live longer than their grandparents did, anyway...as long as they take their prescribed drugs. (Heheheh!)
I had a pleasant shock on Wed, 27 July, 2011. I had to travel several hours from Tokyo to a very rural part of Japan, to visit my fifth grandchild, a beautiful little girl who had been born six days earlier. The "other grandparents" took us back to their country home and treated us to a feast of their own 100% organic produce. We had sweet corn that was better than anything I'd tasted since the 1950s; we saw and ate those huge, ugly tomatoes with the 'real tomato taste' that have completely disappeared from supermarkets around the world; we ate cucumbers that were as crunchy as celery; this part of Japan is famous for its cabbage, which is sweet and unbelievably good. It's really fantastic food, but I can't buy this stuff at any price in the 'big city' of Tokyo! That's part of the problem, I think...Eat well, live well!
Best,
copyu
The denigration of our food....
You're so right. Commercial interest has whittled the natural foods we consume down to just a few financially viable 'cash cow' crops - virtually every supermarket stocks the same limited varieties. As you say, they are selected for their keeping and aesthetic properties rather than their nutritional ones, and we are suffering as a result.
I reckon all natural foods - like the processed ones - should come with a nutritional label. The higher the nutritional value, the more stars the product gets! Rather than nurture the ground with a rich supply of organic manure and natural fertilizer, the plants are drowned in a very limited selection of synthetic elements - just designed to promote growth rather than nutritional value.
An Organic Farm here in Wales did an experiment some time ago. They compared the nutritional value of some of their own organically-grown vegetables to the value of some Supermarket-bought ones. All of their own veg was considerably higher in nutrition than the shop-bought ones - as much as 90% more in some cases! That is quite shocking. It does pay to buy organically and locally-grown produce if you can get it - or grow it yourself.
Sweet treats used to be just that - a 'treat'. Something to be enjoyed on high-days and holidays. All the more precious because it wasn't indulged in very often, but now, people are eating - and drinking - this stuff all the time - often several times a day, and our bodies weren't designed to consume it in this quantity. Weston Price discovered the huge difference in nutritional quality between people on traditional indigenous diets, and those eating the Western diet. Whilst fit and healthy on the traditional diets, within a year of being exposed to the high-carb, high-sugar Western diet, tooth decay was rampant, and within one generation, birth defects became an issue and a general deterioration of health in many directions.
We just don't realise that it is a lack of proper nutrition that is undermining our health. I am trying now with my family, to eat according to the Weston Price principles, which ensures virtually all the food we eat is of the highest nutritional value. Whilst my husband eats grains, I eat very little of them as I am Diabetic and grains and starches tend to spike my blood sugar. My very successful healing diet is low-carb, medium protein, high fat - pretty much the opposite of the 'Food Pyramid' guidelines, but then I have come to realise that if I want to be well I am far better off doing the exact opposite of whatever the 'Establishment' advises! LOL.
My husband is absolutely delighted to be able to eat bread again with no relapse of the awful brain-fog, depression, anxiety, extreme irritability, and exacerbated pain - and I am delighted for me too - as it wasn't pleasant to have to watch or cope with. Although I don't eat the bread myself, I have tried it and was very pleased that it didn't trigger my IBS or 'gluten ataxia' either. I find it amazing that just the relatively simple act of leaving the bread to prove a lot longer has made such a huge difference.
Ali.
I am immensely happy that
I am immensely happy that you've posted this. I just bought a bread machine to make GF bread and this lead me to FL where for the first time in my years that I discovered the long ferment. OMG I have been eating wheat with no impact and I could only guess at why this was happening. While it cost me a bit for that machine, it was priceless to learn this info ... None of the GF sites talk about slow fermentation. Thank you soo much!!!!
One of the underlining reasons I support long "wet times"
for my dough.
What an interesting topic. I
What an interesting topic. I have to carefully read all the replies yet - but the initial post caught my eye. Now that I've read this, I'm sorry I posted about doing a rye batter bread - because I realize it is a very fast bread. Rats - there goes my plans for that loaf.
I'd heard about using sourdough to make a bread healthier - but I'm just waking up to the notion of pre-ferments, sponges, etc with commercial yeast etc. Now I'm confused about what I should do about making a loaf of good rye - should I find a recipe with a pre-ferment / sponge etc?
*sigh* I don't know what to look for in a recipe now.
Okay - since I don't want to
Okay - since I don't want to hijack your topic. I'm going to ask that you with knowledge about this long, slow rise with commercial yeast please give me advice in the new topic I'm about to post. Will title it something like: "help converting grandma's rye bread to a slow rise."
Thank you.
Any recipe for this slow rise soughdough
Is it possible to get a recipe....for dummies....i cannot follow most of the recipes on this forum as converting to australian measurements is hard and if i want to use a starter instead of yeast i dont know how to add it ti the dough or when to add it to the dough...can i use rye, spelt or buckwheat? Thanks
Doolan, easiest way to a slow rise is to add less yeast
Just use your same recipe with which you are familiar.
Ways to slow down fermentation:
Not sure what you mean about converting to Australian measurements (cups?) Metric scale measurements are universal! How do you want to use rye, spelt and buckwheat? I suppose you can look up each grain to figure out how you want to use it. Buckwheat is a grass and has no gluten, so keep that in mind. I have used all in breads with combinations of other flours as well. May I suggest using the search machine? We have a large archive of discussions on each of the grains and getting long rises. (upper left corner of the page)