The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Semolina Filone with Sourdough

varda's picture
varda

Semolina Filone with Sourdough

Ever since Franko posted his semolina filone I've been wanting to try it.   But I didn't want to follow Maggie Glezer's directions (recipe on p. 124 of Artisan Bread) completely since I wanted to adapt it to use a starter instead of a Poolish.    I also didn't have access to fine durum flour - just the big bag of Atta that I hauled home last week.   I have made a few tries at it - today's was my third.    It is the sourest bread I have made recently, with no change to my starter, so I assume it is a function of the fermentation of the durum.   The hardest part seemed to be to get proper opening of the scores.   I think I finally got it.   It wasn't any one thing - just getting a hang of the dough and making small changes to the formula.   The difference in flours meant that Franko's experience - particularly how much water required - didn't match mine.  

Perfect for an afternoon snack.

Formula - with 66% hydration starter 97% white, 3% rye.

Semolina Filone    
5/30/2011    
  Final Starter Total 
Atta Durum300 30057%
Bread flour10011921942%
Rye 551%
Water2608234265%
Starter205  24%
Salt10 101.9%
   875 

 

Mix all but salt.   Autolyze for 30 minutes.  Add salt.   Bulk Ferment for 3 hours with 2 stretch and folds.   (I didn't do mine evenly because of outages.)   Shape and dust with flour.   Place seam side up in couche.   Proof for 50 minutes.   Spritz with water and sprinkle sesame seeds.   Score down center flat to counter.   Bake at 400F for 20 minutes with steam, 25 minutes without.

Comments

Franko's picture
Franko

Oh you got alright Varda! What a gorgeous Filone you've made, with a lovely crumb, crunchy dark crust, and excellent scoring/ slashing. It occured to me while mixing mine that this would be a great bread to do with a natural leavan, something you've proven admirably. Nicely done!

Best Wishes,

Franko

varda's picture
varda

Thank you Franko for your kind words as well as the inspiration.   Given the fiddling I had to do to get this to work with a starter, I would guess that you won't be able to use this formula directly with your Giusto flour.   But when you run out of that.... -Varda

Franko's picture
Franko

Isn't that what this site does best Varda? Can't tell you how often the various members contributions have inspired me, so it's great to hear that I was able to make a similar contribution to your excellent bake of the Filone. I agree that your formula is not likely to work with the X- Fancy durum flour I have, but I have lots of Atta flour on hand, and considering your results, it'd be silly not to use it as a basis for my next mix of this bread. Thanks for sharing your formula!

All the best,

Franko

ananda's picture
ananda

That's perfect cutting going on there Varda

Best wishes

Andy

varda's picture
varda

I steeled myself up for that cut, so I really appreciate the recognition.   -Varda

RonRay's picture
RonRay

Varda, what a great looking loaf !

Ron

varda's picture
varda

I appreciate your comments!  -Varda

Syd's picture
Syd

Excellent on all accounts, Varda: crust, crumb, shaping and scoring.  A lovely looking loaf!

Best,

Syd

varda's picture
varda

Syd, Thanks for your comments and your steady encouragement.   -Varda

jcking's picture
jcking

From a Walkin' Talkin' Bread Machine! Very Nice!

Jim

varda's picture
varda

I still need that t-shirt.   -Varda

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Hello Varda,
Your loaf is beautiful. Love all of those sesame seeds, and lovely scoring!
from breadsong

varda's picture
varda

not to be shy about putting on a lot of sesame seeds.   Thanks for your comments.   -Varda

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

certainty, Varda! Absolutely great bread.

varda's picture
varda

Call it selective posting.   Thanks for your comments.   Hope you are doing well.  -Varda

Anjali's picture
Anjali

stunning bread! I would like to try my hand at it.

Being relativly new at this, I am not confident of reading the recipe. To begin with, should I make a levain with the flours and water listed under 'starter'? How much sourdough culture should be added to it?

Then 205gm of starter thus made should be used to make the final dough. Is that so?

I am keen to make this because I have atta flour which I use to make rotis or chappatis daily. I do not have rye flour and won't be able to buy it here in India. So I would be making this with atta and AP flour. 

Anjali

 

 

 

 

 

varda's picture
varda

Hi Anjali,  In the interests of brevity, I was probably too cryptic.   I used 205g of ripe starter in the dough.   Then I computed based on the hydration of the starter how much flour and water that added to the dough mix.   So the calculations are as follows.   205g of 66% starter contributes (.66/1.66)*205 = 82 grams of water to the dough.   Since the starter flour was 97% white, 3% rye - I computed the contribution of white as .97*(205-82) = 119 and contribution of rye as .03*(205-82) = 5.     So you could take say 30g of your regular starter and feed it 124g of flour and 82g of water and let it ripen.   Then take 205g of it and use for the dough.   That should come close to what I used, and exactly the same if your original starter was 66% hydration.   Please let me know if this isn't clear, or you have other questions.   And, of course, thanks for your comments.  -Varda

Anjali's picture
Anjali

Hi Varda,

Your reply is very concise and not cryptic. Actually I am slow on the uptake as the baking jargon is latin to me still :-).

I have mixed 30gm of my white flour starter with 124gm AP flour and 82gm water as you suggested. I am leaving this in my bedroom overnight as the aircon will maintain the room temp at 25C. Tomorrow morning I will make the final dough.

Thanks of your help and encouragment. I will keep you posted about the results. Regards,

Anjali

Anjali's picture
Anjali

Today morning  the starter had risen very nicely. But while making the final dough I decided to half the recipe. I did not mix to the window pane stage but did 2 s&f at 1/2 hr intervals. After 3hrs I preshaped the dough. This is when I realised the skin started tearing. After a bench rest of 10 min I shaped a batard but it was evident that it would not be smooth.Then after 1hr  it had risen but it looked very pock-marked. Still I scored it and put it in the oven to bake covered for 20min, uncovered  for 25min. When I removed the cover it was obvious that the loaf had deflated and looked very pale. Finally I have a very pale, heavy  loaf  with a surface full of holes cooling. Looks like I went wrong at the shaping stage.

The tearing has happend to me before with sourdough loafs only. With commercial yeast and added fat I have baked reasonably good breads. So do you think I should not attempt SD breads just yet? That I need more experience?

Thanks for your help. Regards,

Anjali

varda's picture
varda

Hi Anjali,   Sorry this didn't work the first time.   I am wondering if your bread was over-developed and/or over-proofed.    High percentage durum breads can be a bit tricky.   I didn't mix more than a couple minutes for either the first or second mix (after adding the salt) and then just relied on some in the bowl stretch and fold.   (I usually stretch a dough out pretty thin on the counter, but I didn't feel that was right in this case and was much gentler than usual.)    Then perhaps the 3 hours was just too long for the bulk ferment stage in your climatic conditions and the dough got overproofed.    Also wondering about your white flour.   What is it?   Is it high enough gluten to help compensate for the fussiness of the durum?    I don't think this is a sign that you shouldn't be baking sourdough breads, but I agree that this particular bread is not the easiest to get started with.   It took me three tries to get a decent bread, and I've been baking almost exclusively sourdough for over a year.   It takes practice, practice, practice.    There is no substitute.   -Varda

Anjali's picture
Anjali

I mixed it with a spatula but it did not look like a ball of dough. So I kneaded it till it all came together but was still not smooth (guesstimate:3mins). I had felt that maybe I had under-kneaded because atta contains bran. But the ultimate palness of the loaf sure does point to over-proofing. I will keep that in mind next time I try this.

The white flour I used is unbranded and has no nutrition facts so the gluten content is not known. But I will have to make do with the same as it the only one available.

Can I impose on you once again and ask for a suggestion of a beginner SD bread? When I see such beautiful pics on this web site I get carried away and want to try them all at once!

Regards,

Anjali

 

varda's picture
varda

Over-kneading could lead to break down of the gluten matrix.   This may be what you saw when you said the dough surface was ripping.  As I understand it (not an expert to be sure) durum is susceptible to that.    A high gluten wheat flour mixed in can help maintaining the strength of the dough, so that is why I was wondering if perhaps your wheat flour was a little too weak for the job.   Over-proofing is a separate thing.   This means that the yeasts eat their fill and multiply and then the larger population starts running out of food and then the whole CO2 balloon starts to collapse.    I am thinking maybe in your case a little of both.    I was proofing in a room in the low 70sF (say 22deg C.)   Fermentation time is quite dependent on temperature.   If your room was hotter than that and you didn't take steps to cool down the dough to say 24deg C, fermentation could have been much faster than 3 hours.    As for a simple sourdough recipe - I have not tried this but apparently a few years ago this http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/9346/123-easy-formula-sourdough-bread was very popular on this site.    You could take a look and try it.  (Also, just search for simple sourdough in the search window.)  Oh, and I almost forgot to add, good luck!