The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Mixed vs. Overmixed

sam's picture
sam

Mixed vs. Overmixed

Hello,

This is old-hat to most of the people at TFL, but here's an example of a good-mixing and over-mixing.    Same recipe, just plain white flour, SD,  but obvious difference.    Color and Flavor wise, I mean.

Good mix:

 

Over-mix:

 

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Thanks for posting this comparision, gvz. I bet the flavor is bleached out of the overworked version, right?

sam's picture
sam

Well, all home-baked bread is good, but the first one was much better tasting.   :)   I think I under-developed the 1st one a little, I think there is a good middle ground, zeroing in on.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

is also over-mixed.   Sorry, you can't convince me this is over-mixing.  No pale crust.  No tight or dense crumb. 

Different camera settings and light variables?  Different amounts of daylight?    Even the metal shines more amber in one photo as compared to the other.    Nope, gotta try harder.  :)

Did you know that a very late addition of salt can also give the crumb a whiter appearance?  

sam's picture
sam

Hi Mini,

I will concede, the lighting of the 2 photo's were a little different, but in person there is a clear difference of color between the two, and also taste, but it is not an earth-shattering difference of taste.  I may have been a bit over-zealous in my previous post.   I should not have used the term, "over-mixed" either.   Maybe a better term would have been "observation of a difference, when I intentionally mixed the same white recipe much more intensely and for a much longer duration".

Sorry about that...   :)   You are right.

Thanks for the head's up on the late addition of salt.

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

went from an almost-ecru shade to brilliant white, too.

foolishpoolish's picture
foolishpoolish

Did you know that a very late addition of salt can also give the crumb a whiter appearance? 

Only if there was significant mixing in the interim. An autolyse, for example, would not be affected by this.
The salt counters oxidation of the dough due to mixing . I understand Calvel mentions this in "Taste of Bread" with reference to the intensive mix with delayed salt addition practiced by some french bakers.

 

sam's picture
sam

So, I suck at photography....  :)   I probably should not have posted those two pics as comparisons / examples....   they were taken on different days in different lighting conditions....  Sorry.....    I will crawl back under my rock now, in shame....   :)

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

Lighting conditions beneath rocks are notoriously difficult for any photographer.  ;-)

Teasing aside, do you recall any noticeable differences in the doughs' handling characteristics or in the texture of the finished bread?

Paul

sam's picture
sam

For handling, actually yes.  Both were 75% hydration doughs.  In the past, whenever I tried that level of hydration, I ended up with a very sticky, barely manageable dough, had to use copious amounts of bench-flour to even work with it at all...    and, it would not hold its shape, and ended up as 'hockey pucks' coming out of the oven.   But, then I significantly increased the intensity of the mixing, and it was a night and day difference.   The structure came together quite nicely.  I barely needed any bench-flour at all, and it was easy to work with.   Held its shape, didn't flatten out.   Scoring was still a bit of a challenge, in terms of the blade pulling on the dough, not cutting cleanly..   Maybe I need a new razor blade.  :)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

came out better.   Could have slapped it around a little more.   Has a nice lift and form to it too.   You are talking about the second loaf, right?

Mini

sam's picture
sam

Both of the above handled pretty easily.   The first was, "mixing more", and the second was, "mixing a LOT more".   Very scientific, I know.  :)

I haven't taken or posted pics of the hockey pucks..      (tasty hockey pucks though!)

sam's picture
sam

Well...  here's the other photos of the 2nd loaf...    for the heck of it...