The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Simple White Bread with Water Roux

  • Pin It
Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Simple White Bread with Water Roux

Hi,

I made some Hokkaido Milky Bread using water roux starter - the only formula where I used this so far.

I had about 200g starter left over and wondered what to do with it -

I decided to make the basic white bread which I know quite a bit from porevious experiments.

The overall formula is simple: Flour 100%, water 70%, salt 2%, fresh yeast 2%

The amounts I used this time:

Flour is Shipton Mill No 1

Water Roux starter:

Flour 20g

Water 100g

Dough:

Flour 280g

Water 110g

Water Roux starter: 120g

Salt: 6g

Instant yeast: 2g

Bulk proof: 90min, final proof: 60min in banneton

The result surprised me: This bread has a rich taste (despite the "short" proof), and a light and springy crumb without a gummy feel.

The holes are small to medium size.

I think this is one of my best simple white breads so far.

Here some photos:

Crumb:

 

Happy Baking,

Juergen

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

:)  Mini

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Thank you!

Jürgen

clazar123's picture
clazar123

The loaf has such a beautiful golden color I expected to see egg in the ingredient list. I googled the flour you used to see if there was any description to explain the golden color. After reading the site, I was wishing that flour was available in the US! Is all the bread made with that particular flour such a lovely color?

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Hi calzar123,

When I started making bread - about 4 years ago and knowing nothing about breadmaking - I started with Shipton Mill 701 flour, which is somewhat similar to the one I used here. I got the golden crumb and wondered what was wrong ;-)

The 701 became my favourite flour, I started using the No 1 only recently (The 701 is available only in 2.5kg bags and my local stockist frequently runs out).

So far I used it for pan pugliese, hokkaido milky bread, German milk rolls, french white bread, with consistent results.

Juergen

Syd's picture
Syd

Nice, Jürgen! That flour looks golden, like semolina.   

Best,

Syd

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Thank you, Syd.

I really like the flour, it actually feels very different from semolina - it feels incredibly soft and velvety.

Juergen

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Outstanding crumb, makes me wish a slice... even if I don't like white bread.

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

... when I started baking. But there is some pressure from my family,

and I am still discovering the richness and difficulties of those simple formulas.

(And I really enjoy the outcome now)

Juergen

teketeke's picture
teketeke

  Hi Juergen,

The loaf looks really great!  I really like the color of the crumb, too.  Thank you for sharing us your great loaf, Juergen!

Best wishes,

Akiko

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Juergen,

Beautiful white bread!

Shipton No.1 is milled from all British wheat...probably from the East Anglian "Bread Basket", would be my thought.   There is specific reference to it having a lower ash content.   So the milling is more refined [think tipo "00" here!]   That is definitely the secret of the golden colour you have in your bread.

All good wishes

Andy

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Thank you, Andy.

And thank you for the clarification about the flour.

I am following your blog about baking with all British flour with interst,

Juergen

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Juergen, I have several questions if you don't mind.

First, did you use bread flour or AP flour or what else?

How is the dough supposed to feel like? Firm or sticky?

Does the dough need to be kneaded extensively or minimally, maybe using a lot of stretch and fold?

Thanks a lot.

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Hi Nicodvb,

The flour question has been answered by Ananda below.

I can add that I made a few non-bread things with this flour (pancakes, German waffles), and my wife made a chocolade roll with it - all came out great.

About how I made this bread: This formula is kind of a reference formula for me - when I switch flours I usually use this one to see how the new flour performs, similarly when I want to try out something new in shaping, folding, etc.

The hydration is 70%, so it's a fairly soft dough, but not tacky. Can get sticky after resting periods.

With the use of water roux it got a different quality - more elastic, and I thought it reached the windowpane state a bit earlier.

I knead by hand, using slap&folds, and did this for about 4 minutes. 

During the bulk rise I folded once after about 30 minutes.

The oven spring was phenomenal.

As I say, I used this formula a lot, and I had a very confusing  time trying to get bigger bubbles into baguettes made with the straight formula (without water roux).

Thanks to ehanner and others I know now that everything is important and part of my dense baguettes: shaping, judging fermentation, flour, water, oven.

This time I wanted to just use up my water roux, I had no expectations and was very surprised.

A note about the crust: It is slightly crunchy, but also very elastic. It feels almost like supermarket bread - if you squeeze it it bounces back!

I intend to make a direct comparison experiment for this formula with and without water roux soon, I'll keep you posted.

I hope this is useful to you,

Thanks,

Juergen

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Nico,

It's a bread flour, see this link: http://www.shipton-mill.com/flour-direct-shop/white-flour/shop-14/finest-bakers-white-bread-flour-no-1-101 and my comment above.   "AP" is not a regular UK flour type.   However, I've used this flour on the odd occasion.   It's lovely, but not that strong.

Best wishes

Andy

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Thanks, Andy. I know how it's important to use the right building block! I have the right one at hand.

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

Here it is.

http://cookaround.com/yabbse1/foto/data/5405/Foto-0295.jpg

http://cookaround.com/yabbse1/foto/data/5405/Foto-0296.jpg

I didn't believe I would have ever baked a bread as soft and light as this one, it's really a totally different world from what I'm accustomed to! It's fluffy, a delight in the mouth. Unfortunately it's totally tasteless, but adding the right flour here and there the taste can be improved :-)

My dough came out sticky and I had to do four turns of stretch and folds. Fortunately I chose the appropriate flour.

I didn't use yeast, instead I prepared a preferment with

-40 gr durum wheat starter

-40 gr water

-50 gr flour

and subtracted the ingredients from the total.

Thanks!

  Nico

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Looks great!

I am sure you'll find some more flavorful ingredients.

For reference,

Here's the flour spec I got from Shipton Mill for the No1:

Protein 12.4%

Ash 0.58%

I thought, the Italian 00 would correspond roughly to a German Type 405, which is 0.405% ash, see http://www.theartisan.net/flour_ash_content.htm

According to this the No1 by Shipton Mill is closer to a tipo 0 or a German Type 550

Happy Baking,

Juergen

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Unfortunately it's totally tasteless,

Try combining the flour and water and letting it just sit for 8 to 12 hrs. -- both the roux (before heating) and/or the dough.  See if that doesn't pull some flavour from the flour.   I would also be temped to try making a real roux, browning some of the flour in butter (cooling) and adding water (heating) to form the water roux.  

I can almost smell the onions/garlic browning with the flour for a variation. 

Mini

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

of ideas. A long autolyse is the recipe for baguettes (IIRC), and the browning of butter is ... simply genial! A test surely worth a try!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Nothing worse than insipid bread.  It brings out "the experimentor" in me.   Unless the curry is too spicy or the gumbo has got me!  :)  

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Hi Mini,

Your ceativity is quite infectious.

I tried the formula above, with the flour of the roux heated with butter before adding the water, and the result is quite different.

There is a slight buttery taste, but the crumb is more dense and not as elastic.

Still a wonderful white bread. (Please excuse the different light conditions)

Cheers,

Juergen

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Juergen,

Cooking the flour as a roux will de-nature the protein.   So you would expect a tighter crumb.

However, you get major increase in water absorption as the positive in the trade-off.

That's a lovely looking white loaf to me.   I've always enjoyed working with Shipton flour.

Best wishes

Andy

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Now to try a autolyse of the water roux before heating...   (phytic acid attacking!)   (browned or not or a little of each?)

still contagious,

Mini

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Hi Andy and Mini,

Thank you for your comments.

At the moment I am a bit preoccupied with German style Mischbrot, I didn't quite take enough time to think the whole experiment through.

I am glad I have you two as observers.

Just for my memory:

Possible variations of the roux starter:

1.Water & flour heated together

2. Flour & butter heated (white) then water added

3. Flour & butter heated (brown) then water added

4. Flour autolysed, then more water added, then heated

5. Combinations of the above

I am lucky to have a flavorsome flour that performs well even with simple straight doughs.

To add more taste to the base formula it is great to add some rye and / or spelt.

One of my favourite variations of this formula  is 70% strong white flour (bread flour), 20% light spelt, 10% wholegrain rye

 

Best Wishes,

Juergen

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Juergen,

When getting into this sort of territory, I tend to keep things just a little simpler.   Get the water on a rolling boil, then add it to your flour.   This will maximise the gelatinisation of the starch by cooking the flour to the highest possible temperature.   If I were looking for flavour from butter, I'd just add it to the dough.   That's just me trying to keep things simple, and not being at all familiar with the Mischbrot you are so enthused with just now.   I really like the boil up with Light Rye flour, or, Dark Rye, depending on the bread being made.

Best wishes

Andy

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Thanks Andy,

If I am to further dive into this your procedure will be the reference point, I feel.

The Mischbrot thing is an entirely different matter - Sourdoughs with a rye starter, rye flour  and differing contents of wheat ( from 0% to 90%), spiked with some yeast for the final proof.

I'm just getting into this because setting up a German language group at my son's school has reactivated some kind of food nostalgia.

Apart from that, the group want to have German suppers with german bread ...

I found that Hamelman's rye formulas are pretty authentic, So that's my playground at the moment ...

Best Wishes,

Juergen

 

 

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Juergen,

I've largely been posting about using local flour recently; Pain de Campagne this evening.

But there are loads of reference points throughout my blog about use of rye, often quite in depth.   Hamelman is great, and you should be able to find much common ground here.   His Detmolder passage is quite revelatory, frankly.   But, check out the soaker methods I've used for Borodinsky recently.   You should have a great deal of fun with that.

Maybe you could find some local flour and work on a loaf like this, since you are UK-based: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23764/pain-de-campagne-gilchesters-farmhouse-flour

Best wishes

Andy

ananda's picture
ananda

Yes, that's right Juergen.

My initial thought when I read the Shipton description about it's being "milled to a lower than usual ash content" made me think of tipo "00".   However, their standard white flours seem to be milled to an ash content of 0.63,  which is closest to the French Type 65 flours.   Closer reference to the information from Shipton does reveal that the ash content for No. 1 is, as you say, around 0.55%, therefore being most similar to the French Type 55 flour.

Best wishes

Andy