The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Miche – the magic of aleurone

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Miche – the magic of aleurone

Recently I re-read the Flour Treatise.  On the third chapter entitled The Milling of Flour, there is a very interesting section about wheat extraction in relation to endosperm, aleurone and bran.  It says that wheat contains on average 85% of endosperm; however, 100 pounds of wheat yields 72 pounds of flour and 28 pounds of feed material.  The article also says that the reason why it is not possible to extract all of the endosperm as flour, “even with advanced milling methods” is because “the peripheral zones of the endosperm adhere so firmly to the aleurone and bran layers that complete separation is not practical….”

When I read this, my initial thought was: Hmmm, animals eat better than we do because, not just that the aleurone and bran layers contain a lot of nutrients, but also that the aleurone layer is known to have a lot of flavour compounds.

The second thought I had was that no wonder many people say Miche has better flavour than normal bread because a lot of Miches are made of high extraction flours.

I read David’s and Glenn’s posts about how they like Keith Giusto’s Type 85 malted flour.  I rang the company and found that the flour is 90% extraction.  I felt that the flour would be great for my Miche experiment, so I got hold of the flour.

The weather has turned quite cool lately with day time temperature 20 to 22C, dropping to 14 to 15C overnight.  I figured if I mixed a dough around dinner time, I could leave it to ferment overnight on my kitchen counter and bake it first thing in the morning.  But I was not going to leave it to chances so I used a low pre-fermented flour ratio of 11% and I didn’t go for a high hydration dough.  Below was a 1.6 kg dough at 76% overall hydration with a flour combination of 75% Type 85/25% white.

 

My Type 85 Miche Formula 

  • 200 g liquid white starter (has just domed, but not fully matured)                   
  • 675 g Central Milling’s organic type 85 malted flour
  • 125 g bread flour
  • 584 g lukewarm water (I mixed my dough to 24C)
  • 18 g salt

 

                   

                                            

                     

                       

 

I loved it.  It has been a long while since I felt excited at my own bread.  The crumb was translucent and that tells me the flour was very well fermented.  The crumb smelled sweet to me.

 

            

                      

 

I cut the Miche in half to give it to my neighbor.  My neighbor’s boyfriend is making me 4 beautiful baguette bread boards, one for me and the others for each of my three sisters.  We went to a local timber merchant last week to select the wood I like.  I selected a natural dark color, hard timber from an Australian native gum tree.  For my half of the Miche, I sliced it for freezer (because I have another bread coming):

 

                                

 

It was a beautiful clear day; my kitchen was full of light, and I was able to catch these beautiful shots (see how the difference of a split second made in the shade of color) :

 

                                    

 

 I went to visit an organic mill, Kialla Foods, 150 km west from where I live.  I wrote up about it HERE.  I brought back a few small bags of their organic wholemeal flour mix and was dying to try it.  The following sourdough was 800 grams, half the weight of the previous Miche, and had 75% of the wholemeal flour mix and 25% white flour.  It also had an overall hydration of 76%.

 

                 

 

                 

 

Apart from the flours, all that I added were my sourdough starter, water and salt.  The flavour was quite good actually.

 

                        

 

                      

 

I have to admit that I am very happy with this baking test.  I previously had problems using Kialla’s stoneground organic wholemeal flour but this wholemeal flour mix is very easy to work with.  I know why.  Look at the ingredient list: organic white unbleached plain flour, organic wheat bran, gluten, organic sunflower oil, organic sugar, organic soy flour, lecithin powder, malt flour and non-coated ascorbic acid, allergen gluten and soy!!

 

Shiao-Ping

Comments

louie brown's picture
louie brown

Outstanding management of fermentation. Gorgeous.

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

louie brown, thank you.

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 Hi Shiao-Ping,

I am very glad to know about aleurone layer that sounds very tasty and healthy.  we call it " 糠" NUKA in Japanese. I understood when I translated the word in Japanese. 

  When I am afford to buy some organic flour that is freshly milled, I will enjoy to try that. :)

Thank you for sharing your experiment that would be helpful to me in the future.  It sounds more fun to hear that you and your neighbor's boyfriend sharing your precious bread each other.  That made me smile. :)

Happy baking,

Akiko

 

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Dear Akiko, Is that so that aleurone is in Japanese?  That is interesting.  That particular character in Mandarin means food scraps, and is sometimes used to describe old wives!

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 Hi Shiao-Ping,

Yes, It means also " food scraps" in Japanese. In other way, we call it  糊粉層(アリューロン層 ).   When I looked up aleurone layer in goo dictionary, it describes it as 糠 ( aleurone) 層 ( layer) that is easy to remember for me.  That ( Old wives) is funny.. Shiao-Ping!

Cheers,

Akiko

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Gorgeous breads, as usual. Magnificent crumb structure on both breads.

I'm thrilled you got the CM Type-85 flour and like it. 

How about this for coincidence? I have a 1.25 kg miche made with half CM T-85 and half CM AP flour retarding to bake today.

David

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Hi David, I would love to see your 1.25 kg miche with 50% type 85 flour and I will keep a look out.  Thanks.  Shiao-Ping

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

See SFBI Miche - another variation - and a SFBI Sourdough

I think I actually used more like 1/3 Type-85 and 2/3 AP flour for this bake. In any case, I think I do like the mixture of these flours better than either one alone. However, I seem to regard which every one I've made most recently as my "favorite."

David

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

I am the same with my coffee.  I drink coffee infrequently and very particular about it, and when I do make coffee, I seem to regard whichever cup I've made most recently as better than the previous one.  Thanks for the link.    Shiao-Ping

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

What mouthwatering photos and nicely written as always!

Sylvia

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Hi Sylvia, thank you.  Shiao-Ping

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

I love reading about where your baking is taking you now that you are posting here again.  What fun to pick out the wood you want for your bread boards and that your neighbor will make them for you....Like how things used to be done.....an even trade of goods based on different but complementary skills :-)

I am sure you have read about this book here but I am going to mention it again since you are into the realm of whole grains now.  It is Peter Reinhart's 'Whole Grain Breads'.  His technique of 2 pre ferments really made a huge difference in the results I get with my whole grains.  His method can be used on any recipe just by using his percentages to adapt other recipes.

Using whole grains won't give you the open crumb people get using bread flour and AP flour but the flavor speaks for itself....

 Just more fun stuff to experiment with on this bread 'journey'.  One never quite knows where it will lead :-).

Thank you for posting and your pictures are amazing as usual....What kind of camera DO you use?  

Janet

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Thank you Janet.  It's interesting you mentioned Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads.  You know what - I read that book FROM COVER TO COVER one Chinese New Years's holiday when I was in Taiwan (not this last one, but the one before).   I have not baked anything from the book yet, I should try.

The camera that I use is Canon SX210 is.  

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Thank you for the camera info....My old Canon died.  It was one that used film....remember those days?  :-) and now I have a digital Fuji....still can't get used to the new format.  I am not a speedy learner when it comes to electronics :-)

If you try a Reinhart recipe - try his mash bread.   I think all of the recipes can be made with SD in place of a biga.  It is a dense loaf compared to the loaves you usually post here but I am told the flavor is GREAT due to the mash.

Janet

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Janet, you have motivated me to do a Peter Reinhart Whole Wheat Mash Bread.  Even though I have read his book cover to cover, I had never made any bread from his book up until now.  Below is my version of a whole wheat mash bread baked this morning:

 

                                 

                

                                                      

 

My formula for Whole Wheat Mash Sourdough with Multigrains (makes 1.3 kg dough):

  • 150 g liquid whole wheat starter
  • Whole wheat mash: soak 325 g whole wheat flour with 355 g hot water (about 74C) overnight
  • Soak 60 g flax seeds in 120 g cold water + 90 g other seeds in 90 g cold water overnight
  • Mix all of the above the next morning with 100 g extra whole wheat flour and 10 g salt
  • My dough hydration is 86% (without taking into account the multigrain soaker) or 98% (taking into account the multigrain soaker)

It is a very nice bread.  My hydration is why above suggested by Reinhart, but I like it this way.  I might have over-fermented my sourdough, but the flavour is very good and the crust is amazing.  We are not afraid to blow our own trumpet, are we.   Thank you, Janet, for the nudge to bake from Reinhart's book.  And, by the way, I like your new picture.

Shiao-Ping

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Good Afternoon Shiao-Ping,

Thanks for posting the picture of your loaf and your 'version' of the recipe.

What a beautiful crust color!  

I will have to try your formula now and see what my kids think of it. :-)  I like your idea of adding the seeds and I am surprised by how open your crumb is.  All the extra water really made a difference.  My mash loaves are usually a lot denser.

 Was the crumb still moist despite it's airiness?

Did you find a difference in flavor due to using essentially 2 pre-ferments?  I only bake with whole grains so I have no comparisons on which to draw as to how his method impacts flavor and gluten development.  His whole ' theory' being that by using a biga/starter and a soaker the grains release more flavor and they soften up as well as giving the dough a 'jump start' on gluten development hence requiring much less mixing time.  (Please note that I have taken GREAT liberty in describing his method here..... since you have read the book, you know how it works....)

I had to get my driver's license renewed and decided if I posing for a new picture there - why not one for here.....so now I have an updated driver's license and a copy of my face here too.  :-)  The amazing thing being that I actually figured out how to do it  with the written help of Sally...only glitch being that when I send messages the photo that pops up there is huge in comparison to the one here.....both loaded at the same time.....oh well.

Thanks again for posting your PR loaf!

Janet

 

 

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Oh yeah I have seen that too - that the logo photo shows up much bigger when you send messages.

The crumb is exceedingly moist.  I think you can cut down the hot water for soaking the whole wheat mash by 20 g; ie. a ratio of 1 to 1 is enough.   Just make sure your starter is strong, then the bread actually makes itself - I mean, you don't need much mixing or even stretch-and-folds because the acidity in the starter helps develop the strength in the dough. 

What I did was I mixed the starter with the mash and the extra 100 g WW flour until just combined, autolyse for 45 minutes, THEN, I added the seeds soaker and salt (very light mixing because with the seeds the dough is delicate).   In the many hours when it sat on my kitchen bench fermenting, I did only 2 sets of S&F's (I was going to do more, but the dough just didn't look extended out enough to be needing more).

RuthieG's picture
RuthieG

Wonderful looking bread and I so enjoyed the discussion of your flours.  Just looking at the pictures, I want to just slather it in butter and take a big bite.

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Just beautiful loaves Shiao-Ping. I also enjoy the CM-T85 flour.  Please do show us the Baguette board when you get it.

Eric

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Hi Eric, it was a last minute thing to mention about the baguette board; at the time I had the sneaky feeling that TFLers would be as interested in a bread board as they would sourdoughs.  You know why - TFLers are all creative craftsmen, love making things with their hands. 

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

Fantastic breads, Shiao-Ping. Great to see you have your bread mojo back and working, and that you have resumed going one step beyond in quest of baking excellence. I look forward to receiving more reports from the cutting edge!

Cheers!
Ross

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Ross, Great to have you visit here too.   I was going to tell a lie about how I got the Type 85 flour because I was feeling really embarrassed about how I got it – creating so much “carbon footprint,” and so much about my talk about using locally grown flour, bla bla bla.  I was seriously going to tell a white lie.  If Central Milling people are reading this comment, they may laugh….  Anyway, I have only got 10 pounds in total.  If anyone who lives in Brisbane would like to try this flour, I am very happy to give away some.  I am serious.  And, Ross, thanks for your comment.  Shiao-Ping

Syd's picture
Syd

Lovely breads,  Shiao Ping and interesting information about aleurone.  I had never heard of it before.  Your comment about the animals eating better than we do made me laugh, but it is true.  We have all been too obsessed with texture and colour in the past (soft white wonderbread) and in the process forgot about flavour.  Breads without some form of wholewheat in them seem to lack that 'wheaty' flavour. 

I always look forward to your posts.

Best,

Syd

Franko's picture
Franko

Shiao-Ping,

Your posts to this forum are among some of the ones I always look forward to reading, not only for the well crafted breads you make, but for bringing all of us along in your quest for more flavourful bread and how to achieve it. Thank you for sharing your insight, thoughts, and photos.

Best wishes,

Franko

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

I enjoyed reading your The Last Loaf of 2010.   I love small towns that have a character like Cowichan Bay that you wrote about.  What is that interesting logo/picture next to your user name?  One day we should have a vote on the best user logo/picture on TFL just for fun.  The one that I love the most is ein who has Einstein riding a bicycle in a sort of black and white picture.  I haven't seen him around, but I haven't been around myself.  Shiao-Ping

Franko's picture
Franko

Shiao-Ping,

Thanks, and I'm glad you enjoyed the post on my visit to Cowichan Bay.

Vancouver Island has a number of small towns and villages of a similar character, but CowBay (as it's known locally) and Mill Bay are the only ones that have a True Grain Bakery in them, which makes these towns extra special for me. Regarding the logo: It is a wood print of St. Honore, patron Saint of bakers and pastry chefs, that I found on the web when I was setting up my account. I'm sure you've heard of him but in case not the link below has a bit of background on how bakers came to have their very own Saint.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Honor%C3%A9

 

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Thank you for the information of St. Honore, patron saint of bakers.  It is interesting reading too.   I guess in ancient times there were many of these patron saints who are revered and treated as protectors.

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Had to jump in here as I have not seen or heard the word 'Cowichan' for many, many years.....The sweater my father lived in when not at work was a Cowichan sweater.  Large bears knitted into the pattern.  It was bought from the Cowichan Indians on one of his trips to Canada.

When I was about 19 years old I drove up to Vancouver to visit friends and ended up buying wool and a Cowichan sweater pattern....came home and knit myself my own C. sweater but it couldn't have been authentic as it was knit by me.....roots in the US.

Had forgotten all about that but your comment brought back fond memories.....Thanks :-)

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Hello,
Shiao-Ping, those are beautiful miches! and thank you for the link to the Flour Treatise.
Thanks for asking the question about Franko's logo. I'd wondered too, but never asked.
Franko's link to Wikipedia shows May 16 as Feast Day for Saint Honoratus - what timing for your question!
from breadsong

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Oh but today is not a Feast Day for me, not by a long shot! 

Thanks for your comment.  Shiao-Ping

fermento's picture
fermento

Hi Shiao-Ping

I remember in an earlier post you used the Four Leaf Milling high extraction flour. Do you have any thoughts on a comparison of the characteristics of that flour with Central Milling's flour? I recently tried a recipe which called for high extraction flour, and although I didn't have access to that and used a fake substitute, it was the most subtle, fragrant bread I have baked so far, so I would like to go further with this.

Kym.

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Hi Kym

I have almost completely forgotten about the Four Leaf Milling flour that I once used.  In memory, the bread baked with it was like a brick (and the bread that I once tasted from a famous Melbourne based bakery was like a brick too).  It was the organic whole wheat flour that I used.  They don't make high extraction flour.  Their flour is just 100% whole wheat flour.  I think I am really not very good at whole wheat baking.  I think Janetcook's suggestion is a very good one - to use a "mash" method in Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads.   The method is similar to Chinese water roux method and essentially you soak the flour in very hot water (74 - 75C) to try to "unlock" the flavour in whole grain flour and soften the bitterness of  it. 

My daughter has a friend who says she loves dense bread.  Maybe it's genetics, I just don't know how to appreciate dense bread, but don't get me wrong, I love heavy bread fully loaded with seeds and soaked grains. 

fermento's picture
fermento

No, brick sounds very unappealing.

I got a little excited that there might be a high extraction flour available locally, but I obviously misunderstood ("I used Australia's Four Leaf's 85% Light Flour, protein 14%").

My first attempt at mimicking high extraction flour was to sift out the bran from Laucke's wholemeal flour, and run some of it through the food processor to "powder" it (couldn't be described as flour!). Surprisingly the results, though not high extraction flour, were palatable. On reading further I realised the usual kludge is just to add a proportion of unbleached bread flour to whole wheat flour. I will continue my search for real high extraction flour, though I'm not optimistic - it's hard enough to source even much more mainstream ingredients locally.

I made Reinhart's whole grain method (not the one with the hot mash) a couple of times, and found the results promising. Not dense, they were full of flavour. The first one, following his recipe exactly, was too sweet for me, but cutting down on the sugar was much more to my liking. This was his basic recipe, and I have been so distracted by my multitude of other explorations I have yet to return to look at the other recipes in the book - I am keen to try the couple of recipes which employ the hot mash.

These are still early days for me, and I'm putting a lot of effort into a better understanding of what's going on at fermentation, and achieving better consistency and quality in my baking. Your thoughtful posts and very clear photos provide inspiration, and aspiration, thanks!

Kym.

 

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Hi Kym, if you look at Four Leaf Milling's website you will see that their 85% Light Flour is listed under Wholewheat Flours.  What they do is that they sift 15% of the bran out and call this flour 85% Light Flour.  Bran is about 14 .5% of a wheat kernel; 15% of the 14.5% makes 2.2%; that means this 85% Light Flour is about 97.8% extraction!   I know the name is confusing.   Around this time last year when I used their flours, I spoke to the company and they said if they now change the name it would throw many people out, so they just keep the name. 

My memory is now so bad; I don’t exactly know why I stopped using their flours.  It was around this time last year when I was writing my A Fermenting Story – JT’s 85 x 3 post that I first came across the Four Leaf brand under the recommendation of some bloggers on Sourdough Companion.  In fact, my wholewheat Chia Sourdough was made using their 85% Light Flour and I liked it very much.  So maybe it’s about time that I revisit this flour.  Thanks for bringing it up. 

 

fermento's picture
fermento

I had come to think, based on comments here and elsewhere, that merely sifting out some of the bran did not produce a true high extraction flour. That sounds too simple. Admittedly they don't specifically call their 85% Light Flour high extraction, but that seems to be the implication. It is odd they stick with the name given its inaccuracy.

I knew my understanding of "high extraction" was shaky, but now I think I have to get a much better grasp of flour milling to properly understand it. I just don't get the essential difference between high extraction, bran sifted out, and whole wheat mixed with a little white flour. It's possibly not absolutely essential - the practical thing is that it delivers such wonderful results in a bread like JT's 85 x 3 (yes, that's the one I tried) - but improving my understanding can only be useful generally. I'm not asking you to fill in my missing education - I have a feeling what I need is already there for the digging in my growing library of bread books!

Kym.


Edit: I love this place - yes, the answer is here, and more complex, to do with the layers of the grain, and the fact that trying to reconstitute doesn't match the components % properly, eg ash, aleurone, germ, bran(s). Time to make the effort to get real HE flour.

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

I am not sure if Four Leaf intended “85% Light Flour” to be their high extraction flour.  To me high extraction means anything more than the normal white flour extraction (ie, 70 – 75%) and typically 85 – 90%.  The exact extraction rate of Four Leaf’s 85% Light Flour works out to be 97.8%, to me, that is almost wholewheat.  “High extraction” seems to be an American or North American classification because in Australia it is not used.  In Australia, there is a term, or classification, that doesn’t seem to be used in America - “wholemeal.”  (A long time ago a U.S. based baker asked me what “wholemeal” flour was.) 

As far as Four Leaf is concerned, their 85% Light Flour is a wholemeal flour.  Let me quote an email exchange I had with Four Leaf last June.  From Four Leaf: 

…the whole wheat grain is milled, then the flour passes over a sieve and approx 15% of the bran is removed.  It still retains the germ and still is a wholemeal flour. 

 

Wholemeal flour is very confusing.  There are very loose regulations for wholemeal in Australia.  Most wholemeal breads are made from white flour with added bran or other "brown" matter added (could be coloring etc) yet still pass as wholemeal.  With our 85% Light Flour only some of the bran is removed, nothing from the rest of the grain.  Actually to be more exact, we probably should call it …95% Flour [note: it is 97.8% to be accurate], but it was named years ago and it would throw everyone into confusion if we changed it now. 

This is why we have another line 100% wholewheat flour which is what it says.  The difference is in the wording, Wholemeal & Wholewheat.

 

When I spoke to them on the phone, I remember clearly that they said the reason why they took 15% bran out is so that “it is easier for people to make bread with.”  Don't take what was said in the quotes as a definitive answer to what "wholemeal" is.  That seems to be a loosely used term.  

I still have questions about high extraction flour myself, especially, HOW high extraction flour is made, so I have more research to be done myself.

fermento's picture
fermento

I didn't know that - I always took wholemeal to be equivalent to whole wheat. It's so surprising these terms are still used so loosely in what is a very mature industry - it's clearly important to ask questions. I discovered one site where the preferred method of flour delivery is bulk tanker... no doubt their customers understand exactly what they are getting, but the contrast is in this part of the industry, the breadmaking hobbyist, which is really a cottage industry (for the manufacturers) in Australia, hence the looseness in terms.

The meaning of high extraction has really come into focus for me now - and the significance of the 85% figure, half way between white flour (about 70%) and whole wheat (100%). Although the two halves are quantitatively equal, they are qualitatively different, which is why you can't really recreate HE flour from other types.

I'm thinking of an analogy in coffee making. The perfect espresso extraction is arguably 23 seconds - but if you were to take an under-extracted (shorter) pour and combine it with an over-extracted (longer) pour, you would never achieve the equivalent of a perfect extraction. OK, 100% and 70% extracted flours are not imperfect extractions, but the principle is the same here I think.

I wonder if any of the Australian mills would produce an 85% flour (I think you're right that Four Leaf wouldn't claim theirs to be HE). I think most of them wouldn't find it worthwhile because the market is too small. I wonder if the small mills like Eden Valley in WA have the technology to be able to do it. I'll ask.

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

As a coffee geek, I really want Kymh's espresso analogy to work, but I don't think it does.  The blend of under-extracted and over-extracted espresso pulls might be analogous to mixing two preferments to achieve a certain desired result.  But I don't think it's analogous to a flour blend.  

Many flours are blends of different wheats and different parts of the wheat berry.  I don't know why mixing the ingredients after separating them would have a different result than sifting out the parts of the berry the miller wants to exclude.  Indeed, mixing the "pure" ingredients would be more exact, I think.

Perhaps I'm missing something?

Very interesting discussion.

Thanks.

Glenn

 

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Hi Glenn, I think Kymh is saying what you are saying, ie. a blend of under-extracted and over-extracted espresso will not be the same as a perfectly extracted espresso, just the same way as mixing white flour with whole wheat flour would not give us a high extraction flour. 

fermento's picture
fermento

Yes, please forgive my somewhat creaky analogy, Glenn, but Shiao-Ping is right. That's what has taken me a while to come to terms with, that a recombination of two different flours has no chance of replicating the purpose-milled 85% high extraction flour. See Shiao-Ping's post below.

Kym.

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

The crumb structure of both loaves is remarkable!  They look delicious.

I'm so happy when others enjoy the Central Milling flours.  I was at their warehouse Friday and picked up 40 pounds for myself and a certain brother of mine: more of their Organic Artisan Bakers Craft white flour and more of their Organic Hi-Protein Fine whole wheat flour.

I wish it were easier for more distant bakers to get the CM flour.

Glenn

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Thank you, Glenn.  You go through flours very fast.   Isn't it nice to drive to your favourite miller to pick up your favourite flours.  I wouldn't mind it myself.  It would be a luxury. 

Shiao-Ping

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

I have been going through the CM's Artisan Bakers Craft pretty quickly.  I use it in place of other "all-purpose" flours in a variety of uses.  It costs about the same as King Arthur AP, so why not support a local business (especially one that is so deserving of support).

As to the luxury of going to Central Milling's warehouse, I have to admit it is fun to go to the source of flours used by so many great artisan bakeries.  I'm tempted to try as many of their flours as I can, but I need to work on reproducibility of my favorite loaves more than I need to broaden my repertoire.

Glad you like "our" flour, but remember Petaluma is just the location of their warehouse.  The mill is in Utah and the wheat fields are all over the Northern Plains.

Glenn

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Thank you, Glenn, for letting me know.  I didn't know the Petaluma office is just their warehouse.  How lucky you are.

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

I phoned Nicky Giusto of Central Milling where I got my Type 85 flour for the bread in this post.  I am sure if I dig hard enough at the data bank on The Fresh Loaf I would get the answers to my queries but I am impatient.  To talk to the people in the know seems to be a quicker way.     

I have two key questions to ask.  The first is when we say that a flour is 90% extraction rate (which is the case of the Type 85 flour that I used), do we mean: 

  • 90% endosperm,
  • 90% bran, and
  • 90% germ;

 or, do we mean: 

  • all of the endosperm,
  • all of the wheat germ, and
  • just some of the bran,

 bearing in mind in a wheat kernel, the composition is roughly

  • 83% in endosperm
  • 2.5% in germ, and
  • 14.5% in bran
  • -----------
  • 100%

The answer is the latter.  It has to do with how the high extraction flour is made.  Nicky said that after they peel off the flakes of the wheat kernel, ie. the outer layer/ the bran, they then mill the softer inner layer together with the germ.  The process is done manually.

The second question that I have is how a home baker simulate high extraction flour at home.  I asked if Hamelman’s suggestion of using a blend of 85 – 90% wholewheat flour and 10 -15% white bread flour a good simulation (see Hamelman’s Bread, page 165 under Miche, Pointe-a-Calliere).  To my surprise, Nicky said NOT AT ALL.  He said a good place to start would be 75% bread flour and 25% wholewheat flour, or 70% bread flour and 30% wholewheat flour.  He said the bread flour has to be a good hard red winter wheat ALL-PURPOSE FLOUR and the wholewheat flour has to be a good hard red winter wheat 100% WHOLE WHEAT FLOUR, not some of the reconstituted so-called whole wheat flour where only the brans are added back in and no germ. 

I asked him about hard white winter wheat (common in Australia) and he said the ones they tested lacked a flavour dimension and performance dimension that they like.

Shiao-Ping

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

Nicky knows his stuff!  A family of flour geeks who are great bakers.

I note that the SFBI Miche formula calls for all-purpose flour plus wheat germ.  No bran.

Glenn

fermento's picture
fermento

...not great news for me, given that I don't have access to the hard red winter wheat. I am tempted to import some flour from CM, but even though I'm sure the results would be worth it and very interesting, it's not an economic ongoing strategy.

To be realistic, there are many options which are not available to any baker in any given location, but the trick is to take maximum advantage of your local resources.

Kym.

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Well, I don't have a source for hard red winter wheat either.  Doesn't matter.  I think we'll make do what we have thank you.  You are more lucky than I am - I am not able to get Laucke's wholewheat flour, can you believe that - NO WHERE in Queensland can a home baker get it because if I can't get it, I don't think anyone can get it!   Laucke's wallaby bakers flour is available everywhere, but it's wholewheat version is not available.  The distributor for Queensland told me that I have to buy a "pallete!"  I don't even know what that word means - 3,200 kg?  How depressing for a home baker!

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

I have a great source for both red winter and spring wheat in bulk......great price too.....Under 30.00 for a 50# sack....only problem being that of shipping costs.....  =:-0  

Purchasing it would turn your loaves into bricks of gold!

Janet

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Janet, is that an online source?

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