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English muffin with raisin yeast water plus alcoholic raisins

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teketeke's picture
teketeke

English muffin with raisin yeast water plus alcoholic raisins

English muffin with raisin yeast water + alcoholic raisins.

Updated 5/9/2011  I found out that skipping the first proof had a good result of English muffin shape and more flavor . Thanks to everybody who left some notice on my English muffin, I could find the difference. Thank you, Syd and Kimmy and Larry and Daisy and Ron and everybody! When I use the first proof, the muffin inflated like a balloon. The taste was weaken.

I tested this English muffins without the alcoholic raisins, it came out flavorless.  They are one of our breakfast menu once a week.

I also leave the method to make raisin yeast water here for reference.   Alcoholic raisins are in the raisin yeast water.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23809/how-i-make-and-maintain-raisin-yeast-water

Ingredients:

(  7-8 English muffins)

Levain:

  • Raisin yeast water ( from refrigerator)  65g  My refrigerator is set up 6℃
  • KA AP                                               65g

------------------------

Final dough:

  •   Bread flour                  300g
  •   water                          170g  ( DDT 76F)    
  •   Honey                            8g
  • Shortening                12g  (  Shortening - Soft crust / It is easy to bite off-- I like this better,  Vegetable oil-- Chewy crust)
  •   Salt                                5g
  • Corn meal and 50% KAAP/rice flour for dipping
  •  * I dip 50% KA AP/ 50% rice flour mixture for the top, white corn meal for the bottom.

Method:

1. To make the levain----Put the raisin yeast water and alcoholic raisins in a container.

 

2. Add the KA AP and mix with a plastic spatula and leave it at room temperature at 70-74F for overnight.

  

3. Next morning( 12 hours later) : My levain rose tripled in bulk.

  4. Put the levain in a food processor and run for 30-40 seconds until the raisins are smashed well.

5. Mix the levain and final dough except the salt and the shortening( Sorry this picture is old -I used 12g vegetable oil at the time)-- Autolize 20 minutes-- Spread the dough on the surface and add the salt and the vegetable oil in the dough and combine well and knead until you pass the window pane.

 

 6. Divide it into 7 or 8 pieces. ( About 7 for 70g each /8 for 83 g each )--- Bench time 15-20 minutes ( Cover them with saran wrap or dump towels)

7. Shape and Proof: place the dough on a sheet of parchment paper on the baking sheet. ---Proof :3-4 hours

 I dip the bottom in some white corn meal first,

 and ,dip the top in some 50% KA AP /50% rice flour.

 

 

 

 ----Preheat the oven at 350F 20 minutes before baking.

8. 4 hours later.  

 

Note: When you transfer the dough, You might find out it is difficult.. I do this way:

 OR

9. preheat the hot plate at 350F. Cook one side for 2-3 minutes until yellow golden and flip over the other side to cook 2-3 more minutes until yellow golden as you achieve the crust color.

10. Bake at 350F for 10 minutes and cool them on the rack.

 

Note: My yeast water's strength --100% yeast water levain : flour = 1: 2  is fermented in 6 hours.  I bake these English muffins in 5 hours  after finish kneading the final dough.   * 6 hours -1 hour =5 hours.     I am trying to bake them 1 hour before it is fully fermented.  I got the kind of idea from Mini oven. Thank you, Mini !

--------------------------------------------------

* I used 177g water instead of 170g water on the final dough in January.

 

 

Best wishes,

Akiko 

wildeny's picture
wildeny

Very nice Englisnh muffins, both.


I notice that you didn't use baking powder in your recipe. Many have, along with the yeast. I wonder what the baking powder is for.

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Thank you for your compliment, wildeny.  I am thinking of the effect of using baking powder and dry yeast...Your point reminds me of  Naan which I make with  baking powder and dry yeast.  The naan has a big hollow between the top and bottom's and has a lot of holes on the crust like English muffin. I use some yogurt for the naan to make  more moist and softer crumb though.  For English muffin, we call the structure" Nook and Cranny"?  You told me a good lesson! Thank you! I have never used baking poweder in my English muffin when I use dry yeast. It might be good to get nook and cranny crumb?


Best wishes,


Akiko

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hi Wildeny,


I used BP in the English muffin with dry yeast water that I replaced the raisin yeast water to water.


Poolish: DDT70F



  • 65g  KA AP

  • 65g  water

  • 0.5g dry yeast


Final dough:



  • 300g bread flour

  • 1g dry yeast

  • 4g baking powder

  • 12g honey

  • 12g vegetable oil

  • 5g salt


Direction:



  1. Poolish mix and sit for overnight at room temperature  ( 12 hours)

  2. Next morning: mix all the ingredients.

  3.  Knead until passing a window pane. DDT 74-75F -- Rest for 15 minutes.

  4. Divide and preshape

  5.  Bench time 15 minutes

  6. Shape

  7. Proof  for 3-4 hours until 1.5 times its original.

  8. Bake  The same as the original recipe



I proofed for 4 hours when I saw the dough rose almost doubled... However, They were tasty.


Thank you for the tip. It works!


Cheers,


Akiko


 

Syd's picture
Syd

Beautiful English muffins, Akiko.  I particularly like the crumb structure of the ones made in January.  For me, that is the perfect crumb structure for English muffins. 


All the best,


Syd :)

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Thank you, Syd! I am happy to hear what you like the muffin that was made in January.  I better make them in the same to time to compare the taste of the muffins. 


Best wishes,


Akiko

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

it's a serious questions - I really don't know what U mean. Thanks

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hello  subfuscpersona,


The alcoholic raisins are in the raisin yeast water ( wild yeast)


Here is how to make and maintain raisin yeast water:


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20460/banana-saga-%E9%95%B7%E7%AF%87%E6%95%85%E4%BA%8B#comment-142813


I keep my raisin yeast water with the alcoholic ( fermented) raisins in a refrigerator when I store. Why? It is very important to keep ( leave) some sugar in the raisin yeast water not to get hungry much.  Too hungry yeast water make your bread sourer and might have a rising problem. I think that is the same thing  happen to sourdough starter, too. 


I hope that is helpful to you.


Best wishes,


Akiko


 


 

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

...for taking the time to reply. Your response was helpful and I appreciate your inclusion of the link.


Because of your posts, I'm inspired to try this approach.

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hi subfuspersona,


I am glad and happy to hear from you that was helpful.  To maintain yeast water is much easier than sourdough starter from my experiment.   


Thank you for reading my posts, too :)


Akiko 

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

on the ease of maintaining a water yeast compared to a sourdough starter.  I tried it once and it was a complete flop.  You post has inspired me to give your method a try.  I have a bread book that recommends feeding it with a tbsp of flour and 1.5 tbsp of water plus half tsp of brown sugar  twice a day when the water is ready but I prefer your method of keeping the water in the fridge and only adding flour to make a levain when I'm ready to bake.  I can't wait to see the result of my experiment. Judy

teketeke's picture
teketeke

:) There are a lot of method of yeast water all over.  I, the one who has also confuse with yeast water when you asked me.  I looked up more methods of making raisin yeast water  that other Japanse home bakers use. There are really making me crazy... :P... You are not only one who got confused, Judy. I understand how you feel now.


  When I refresh my yeast water, I shake the jar to combine well, and  close my lid ( not too tight, not too loose) to ferment for 12 hours or so.  I use a tea spoon old yeast water to make another one right now because my yeast water smells strong when I refresh at night.   I add Raisins =R and 1 tsp old raisin yeast watwer and 3xR volume water.  It always works fine.


Please let me know how your result turns out.  Ron and other TFL members who has the experiment will help you if you have trouble with it besides me.


Very best wishes,


Akiko

kim's picture
kim

Akiko,


I like your “without first bulk fermentation batch”, they looked real good to me. Did you notice any differences in taste at all for both batches? I’m thinking to do English muffin as my first trial when my yeast water is ready. Thank you for the clear step by step pictures.


Kimmy

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hi Kimmy,


Thank you for your opinion that is useful.  Hmm.. I don't remember the difference of the taste.LOL   I will let you know when I made two of them in the same time.  


Best wishes,


Akiko

RonRay's picture
RonRay

Wow, Akiko- they look as good or better than any I've seen posted on TFL - or anywhere else. ;-)


Ron

teketeke's picture
teketeke

That is a big compliment, Ron!!!  Do you know that your soudough cracker is the best??? I am making more yeast water levain to make more your sourdough crackers, not for making bread. LOL


Cheers,


Akiko

RonRay's picture
RonRay

Akiko, if you lived closer, I'd offer to make all yeast water levains for a batch of your English muffins once a month...   (^_^)


 


Ron

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Ron,  You just made me smile :)  I will share my English muffin with you if you are my neighbor once a week!! 


:)


Akiko

RonRay's picture
RonRay

Akiko, that offer makes moving a tempting thought, however, I would have to clean the basement, in order to sell the house, and that ends that idea- ROFL


Ron

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 For my English muffin ? LOL...


Akiko

wally's picture
wally

I'm with RonRay: as nice as anything I've seen, on this site or elsewhere.


We make on average about 100 muffins per day where I work.  Your recipe isn't so far removed from ours (though we don't use raisin water and we do add a small portion of yeast), but we only do a bulk fermentation of 1 hour, and then another hour after shaping.  After shaping we place them on sheet pans with 1/2" sides and then cover with plastic wrap to spread the rising dough out.


We cook on an oiled skillet for about the same time as you.


As far as flavor goes, I find that the high porportion of levain gives them a nice 'bite.'


Nice bake!


Larry

RonRay's picture
RonRay

I think I shall take that idea and make it one of mine,,, LOL


Ron

wally's picture
wally

Ron - I should have added that we also spray the tops of the muffins with a Pam-like bake spray; otherwise you have dough sticking to the wrap when you remove it!


Larry

RonRay's picture
RonRay

Whenever, I use Food Service Film, I lightly spray, or place a few drops of Grape Seed Oil, on the surface of the FSF and spread it about - on the side that may, or will be touching the dough. It takes much less oil that way. Of course, in a production environment, time is money, and your method would be much faster.


Glad you pointed that out though, for those that might not have though of the "potentially sticky" problem... LOL


Ron

teketeke's picture
teketeke

I am so happy to hear that from you who I respect as a professional baker.


Professor Calvel also uses high porpotion of levan to make good bread. I learned this from him. In his book, he also adviced  a baker to increase the levain to make fine bread as I remember. Please let me know if I am wrong.  I want to learn bread baking from you who have a lot of experiences.


Thank you again Larry,


Akiko

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Akiko,


Your English muffins look delicious - a great bake and a great blog!


It's good also to know about this use for the alcoholic raisins. Always looking to recycle things in our household...


I'm English and I don't even bake English muffins LOL. I will have to study this post and give it a go.


Thanks for posting.


With best wishes, Daisy_A

teketeke's picture
teketeke

LOL  You made me laugh!!!  I am Japanese so that I tried "GOPAN" which means rice bread that has chewy and soft textures like eating MOCHI ( sticky) bread.


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/22320/bread-machines#comment-164939


I am looking forward to seeing your result when you try it. :)


Best wishes,


Akiko


 


 


 

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Akiko,


Thanks for the link! I followed through to the Gopan. It looks beautifully light and fluffy :-)


Best wishes, Daisy

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Your welcome, Daisy!  To be honest, I didn't give it to my husband, I assumed that he didn't like it.  Alhough My son and daugther really liked it, especially when they ate next day.


:)


Akiko

Oldhenwife's picture
Oldhenwife

I don't bake them either, the name means nothing to me!

Mary

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Hi, Akiko:

You've always introduced new ideas of baking to us. Very, very nice English muffins. Thank you for sharing!

Yippee

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Your welcome, Yippee :) 


 I am happy to hear that from you:)


Akiko

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

All day today I have been gathering recipes of yours to use with  my new raisin yeast water and tonight I found yet another one!  


You are a hard baker to keep up with!  I don't know how you have time to do so much baking and then recording of it all here for us to follow WITH your great pictures that make is so easy to see what you are describing.


This one looks great too and I really like that you used RWY so this recipe is being added to my 'to bake' list too :-)


Thank you so much for taking the time to post yet another wonderful, mouth watering recipe to try :-)


P.S.  I saw the gopan too and will have to try that one now since I love mochi and eat mochi every day!


Janet

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hi Janet,


I don't know what to tell you how much happy I am because of your comment. I think that raisin yeast water is easy to maintain. I am lookng forward to seeing your result of bread with your yeast water.  It is really fun to try a new thing and more fun to get a good result. :) 


I am happy to share my Gopan and other formulas with you, Janet :)  I am a mochi fan!!


Akiko

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Hi Akiko,


What amazing texture.


I have again raisin water going and will try your muffins on the weekend.


Juergen

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Thank you for your kind word, Juergen!   How is your baking experiment? I hope that you are doing well.


I hope that you will be sucessful.   I updated this recipe little bit.


:)


Akiko

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

... and I find more and more things I want to try (I have a notebook now, that's a good start to more order;-))


I got Carol Field's book and compared with the pugliese formula from my course. The big difference is hydration: The course formula says 68%, the book says 74%! I made a 70% hydtration pugliese today, which came out nicely, with a more even crumb.


I also tried out a recipe for "Hokkaido Milky Bread", soft and sweet.


We will have your muffins for tea on Saturday, if we are at home, and I'll let you know how it went. My fruit yeast seems to be happy at the moment.


Thank you for your wishes,


Juergen

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hi Juergen,


Thank you for the tip!  I will increase the water amount when I make your pugliese! Thank you! 


Hokkaido Milky Bread.  Is this recipe that you used.


http://schneiderchen.de/237Hokkaido-Milky-Loaf.html


That is great to hear that your raisin yeast water is healthy! Good work, Juergen!


:)


Akiko

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Quite rich.


And I overbaked the first lot ...


But it didn't last long.


Juergen

teketeke's picture
teketeke

It might taste between brioche and white sandwich bread like?  


That sounds very delicious,


Akiko


 

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

on Saturday.

They were very popular with my family; I made them slightly too big (100g). After eating one of them (with cream cheese) my 5 year old asked for a second one ...

Here's a picture, I cut them because I overcooked them a bit so they didn't tear open properly.

muffins

Very nice taste, and they had a lightness and springiness which must come from the yeast water.

This will certainly become a regular in my repertoire.

I will try the hokkaido bread again soon, and keep watch near the oven. The taste of this bread reminded me a bit of a milk bread we had in Germany when I was little, it was called "Einback", which means "baked once". (I am hoping to find a good recipe one day, the hokkaido bread comes closest so far) In Germany you can get rusks called "Zwieback", which means "baked twice". To make Zwieback you take slices of fresh Einback and roast/dry them until they are golden brown.

Usually they are food for sick children, but they are also delicious with butter and honey, and they keep for ages (years).

I have got a good Zwieback recipe (will post after the next batch), but the Einback version of that is not quite satisfying. I shall compare the formulas and try double-baked hokkaido bread.

Thanks again for your great inspirations!

Happy Baking,

Juergen

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hi Juergen,

It is very nice looking English muffin, Juergen!!  I am so happy to hear the good result, and that is your effort. You have had a lot of bread experiments and you must learn about dough.

 I am also very glad that your family and your 5 year old child enjoyed it. My daughter is 5 year old , too!  She likes to put strawberry jam in it. :)  She has a sweet tooth anyway.

Thank you for Zwieback information!  I don't know any Germany, but I learned the one right now!  Hokkaido bread is similar to Zwieback.... Interesting. Thank you!    I'd like to try the Zwieback recipe when you post, of course! And, when my daughter gets sick, I will make it for her. :)

  It is really very nice crumb!   Great work!! 

Akiko

 

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

Thank you Akiko,

for your praise.

As for zwieback, that might be similar to roasted hokkaido bread - I'll try it out over the weekend.

The hokkaido bread is similar to what our baker sold as "einback" - single baked bread.

Juergen

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Juergen,

When I reread what I wrote above, I made a big mistake: I wanted to say " You must have learned a lot of baking experiments" instead of  you must learn....   Sorry!!

 Thank you for more detail of Zwieback ( roasted hokkaido bread) and " einback" ( hokkaido bread), Juergen.  I got it.

:)

Akiko

Juergen Krauss's picture
Juergen Krauss

and I don't deny that both is true;-)

Juergen

teketeke's picture
teketeke

I'd like to learn more about baking bread.  And, Your experiments helped me a lot, Juergen!

Akiko

RuthieG's picture
RuthieG

Wow those are just beautiful.  So beautifully shaped.  I have made them before but they never looked as good as yours. I will have to have another shot.  I am anxious to hear the difference in taste in raisin water and dry yeast.  Thanks to you a whole new field of baking has opened up. 


 


You are so amazing.......


 


P.S. Friday is my 72nd Birthday, could you just send me a birthday present of muffins.  haha just kidding of course about the miffins...unfortunately not about the 72.


 


Thanks again for a fun post.

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 Hi RuthieG,

I hope that you had a good birthday, RuthieG.   Your loaves look very soft and moist.

I am looking forward to seeing your another experiment!  I respect your work that you tried a new thing.

Thank you for your kind words, RuthieG :)

Akiko

 

boskom's picture
boskom

wooow.. it look delicious :)

boskom's picture
boskom

Tonight I am gonna try to bake this..

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 Hello  boskom,

Thank you for your comment!

Please let us how your English muffin turns out. :)

Cheers,

Akiko

quickquiche's picture
quickquiche

in making this raisin yeast water, you say you add "alcoholic raisins". I am puzzled by this as I've never heard of alcoholic raisins. Are they a special type of raisin that you can buy at a supermarket or is it something that is done to them by the consumer to make them alcoholic?   I would really like to try this method of using raisin yeast water to make baguettes, but I am somewhat bewildered and would appreciate some clarification.  

Thanks

 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

  Hi Tory,

Thank you for another kind word on my English muffin too.

Alcoholic raisins are in the raisin yeast water when I make.  I left a comment on my favorite baguette about raisin yeast water, but I will leave the method here for reference.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23809/how-i-make-and-maintain-raisin-yeast-water

Thank you for asking this, Tory.  I will update to add the method on my English muffin post too.

Akiko

 

quickquiche's picture
quickquiche

Hello,

I am trying to figure out something with dough rise. I am trying to make dough using raisin yeast water. However, I am finding that the dough does not rise much at all. I am wondering if this is normal or not? Before I tried using raisin yeast water, I used instant yeast and got much better rise out of my dough than I am getting using the raisin yeast water. So I guess I'm not sure if something is normal or wrong.

Anyone who can offer some insight on this, I'd like to hear from you. Thanks.

teketeke's picture
teketeke

  Hello quickquiche,

I am glad to hear that you tried the English muffins with yeast water and dry yeast.

However, I am finding that the dough does not rise much at all. I am wondering if this is normal or not?

 Yes, You are right about the dough ..  It is difficult to see how much the dough rises... but I know when it is ready to bake... like making bagels.  When the dough floats in the water, it is ready although I never put the English muffin dough in the water to test.  I can feel it when I fold the dough.   

P.S I am sorry not replying sooner.

Akiko

quickquiche's picture
quickquiche

Akiko,

Hi. Actually I did the baguettes, not the English muffins. The crumb turned out nicely, but its very strange to see the dough NOT rising like I expect it to when I use ordinary (commercial) instant yeast. Its as if the dough just doesn't rise at all. Even hours later, its the same as it was when I first put it in the bowl to proof it. Whereas if I use commercially made instant yeast, I can see the dough double in size and its VERY obvious. But for some odd reason, I cannot get the crumb to turn out the same with commercially made yeast as I do with the raisin yeast water. When using the raisin yeast water, the crumb is open and airy. With commercially made instant yeast, its usually kind of dense with minimal open crumb.

Thanks though for the reply.

 

Tory