The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Organic Vermont Sourdough - Best Results

prijicrw's picture
prijicrw

Organic Vermont Sourdough - Best Results

I used Hamelman's formula for this classic Vermont Sourdough. Used Heartland Orgranic flours that I found at Whole Foods. Dough was hand-kneaded and retarded overnight. Baked on 2 inch firebrick and covered with aluminum roasting pans ($1 at Dollor store) for first 20 mins of baking. Sorry there is no crumb shot, but trust me that it was as soft as a pillow! I attribute my success to the gentle kneading, organic flour, and aluminum covers. Enjoy!

Comments

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Thank you for sharing your great result of your loaf, prijicrw!  My experience of the aluminum turkey pan didn't work well.  Did you pour some hot water in the pan underneath the fire bricks?  The thick fire bricks is the key of this steaming method?  How long did you preheat your oven before you bake the loaf?    I wonder the oven rack looks little bent because of the weight of the heavy bricks?   My oven's bottom is little bent because I put 2 bricks on it.  I don't care much. It is still there. :)

Your another loaf looks terrific, too.  

Akiko 

 

prijicrw's picture
prijicrw

Hi Akiko. Thank you for your comments. When using the aluminum covers, I still always pre-steam the oven- as to never expose the raw loaves to a dry heat. I have used firebricks for about a year now. I cannot say with certainty that the thickness makes them superior to your your average commercial baking/pizza stone. I do allow for a full hour for them to preheat- as 45 minutes is definitely not enough for their thickness. For me, the main advantages of firebrick are 1)flexibility 2)price. You can arrange them to accommodate the size/type of loaf you are baking and if you can find a local brickyard- they only cost about $1 per brick. Disadvantages: 1)heavy 2)longer preheat. You are correct in noticing that my oven rack is bent : ) and it is definitely due to the weight of the firebricks.

Thanks for your comments,

Ryan 

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Wow.  That loaf is fantastic.   Nicely done.

prijicrw's picture
prijicrw

Thanks, Floydm!

Franko's picture
Franko

This gorgeous looking loaf of yours deserves a lot more attention than it's had so far, but let me say that's as fine a looking loaf of hearth bread as I've seen on this forum in a while. Great colour, and with it's high profile it's clear you scored and baked it off at it's prime. Beautiful work!

Franko

prijicrw's picture
prijicrw

Hi Franko,

I appreciate your comments. Yes, I find that with 100% sourdough breads, most home bakers probably underproof (especially in cooler climates/seasons). And, of course one needs to adjust the depth of scoring in relation to how proofed the loaf is at the time of loading. 

Thanks,

Ryan

Mebake's picture
Mebake

As Franko Said, Your loaf is a hearth beauty! Well done!

prijicrw's picture
prijicrw

Thanks, Mebake! I love this term: "hearth beauty"

It will definitely be a category in my future Baking Pageant ; )

Ryan

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Hello Ryan,

I've admired the loaves in your previous posts, and these are just as beautiful.
The bloom and blistered crust on your loaves is really something to behold!

I like your firebrick setup for baking - I use firebricks too, with my older, thinner baking stone preheating on the upper rack for some more radiant heat.

I am noting your comment to Franko re: proofing and scoring, and was wondering how you judge proofing's progress? From your exquisite baked loaves, I'd say you're judging things just about perfectly!

Thanks, from breadsong

pattycakes's picture
pattycakes

Yes, these are really beautiful loaves! I do find that I have a hard time knowing when the proofing is exactly right. I do tend to underproof, always thinking that I'll get better oven spring if I don't let them go too far. Do you have a method of knowing when the dough is ready? And did you form and retard overnight, or bulk retard?

Thanks,

Patricia

M2's picture
M2

Nice shaping, nice slashing and nice blisters on the crust! 

Is a crumb shot available?

prijicrw's picture
prijicrw

Thanks, M2! Sorry, no crumb shot available- as when it came time to slice into it, my family devoured 2 loaves in minutes : )  I will post a similar bake crumb shot in the future!!

Ryan

kgpowell's picture
kgpowell

Hi, I baked a sourdough seed bread just now, and it came out quite well, but I don't get the sheen and blisters that you get.  Any idea how to enhance that?  My bake followed the formula in Hamelman, and retarded overnight, in bannetons in a fridge.

prijicrw's picture
prijicrw

Hi kgpowell. The blisters are due to the retarding (tiny gas bubbles slowly trying to escape the surface), but without enough steam or moisture (if using a cover) during the first 3rd of baking, the blisters won't be as pronounced. If you ARE doing either of those, then it could have to do with temperature. I tend to bake at higher temps than Hamelman's temps (largely because I think my crappy oven bakes low) and usually bake at 500 F. The temperature aspect is just a thought- not positive that produces a more blistered/shiny crust. Last thought- it could also be that you are not producing a tight enough skin tension during forming. It should be very tight, but avoid tearing. Hope this helps!

Ryan

Ps. Sorry- thought of one last thing. During retardation, how are you storing the loaves? It is best to keep them (whether in baskets, brotforms, etc) enclosed in plasic- otherwise the skin is likely to dry out. I find this easiest placing loaves on a board and enclosing them in an unsented garbage bag.

 

prijicrw's picture
prijicrw

This is in response to the questions about proofing. I think that in the end, you must use visual judgment to decide when your bread is "pefectly proofed." If you base it purely on a formula, there are countless factors that would need to remain 100% consistent. That said, it is certainly wise to use a formula as your guideline. To perfect your own proofing judgment, I would suggest lots of trial & error. Stick with one recipe, keep ALL variables the same except for proofing. Then keep strict record of your results. Even after 3 or 4 bakes, you should have learned something in regard to proofing and final loaf volume.

Below I have included photos from two batards at different proofing stages. One in an 8" basket and the other in an 8" brotform. Both were 450 grams.

Basic Formula

3 hour bulk ferment at 80 degrees

Pre-shape & Rest

Shape & Proof for 1.5 hours at 80 degrees

Retard for 12-14 hours in refrigerator (40-45 degrees)

Additional proofing for 3 hours out of refrigerator

Bake

 

Right after shaping (below)

After 14 hours at 42 degrees (below)

After additional 3 hours (2 hours at 85 degrees in warm oven & 1 hour at 75 degrees on top of preheating oven (below, 2 angles)


 

Right after shaping (below)


After 14 hours at 42 degrees (below)

After additional 3 hours (2 hours at 85 degrees in warm oven & 1 hour at 75 degrees on top of preheating oven (below)


pattycakes's picture
pattycakes

And your temperature notes are very intriguing. First, I think your refrigerator is warmer than mine. Second, I never get to proof at 80 degrees. So. Maybe I should get a proofing box and give it a shot!
Thanks,
Patricia

prijicrw's picture
prijicrw

Hi Patricia,

For my "proofing box," (especially during winter) I just preheat my oven for 1-2 minutes. Depending on the oven of course, the temperature should get to between 80-90 degrees.

Ryan

plevee's picture
plevee

You don't seem to have any flour coating your proofing baskets and the surface of your loaves looks moist; how do you get the dough out of the baskets? Or are they some kind of non-stick surface?  Patsy

prijicrw's picture
prijicrw

I use rice flour to dust anything for overnight retarding. It doesn't get absorbed into the skin (of the loaf) like wheat flour does over long periods. Then after turning onto a baking peel- most of the excess rice flour can be wiped off. If you watch the scoring video or look at the final baked products, you can see the faint lines of rice flour.

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Ryan,
I appreciate very much that you took the time to write this up and post photos.
There's some good advice in your reply!
:^) from breadsong

prijicrw's picture
prijicrw

Below is a link to a scoring video that I took. Please excuse the double-swiping (as I prefer one clean slash) but I found it rather difficult to hold my iPhone in one hand at the same time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjtJLCHIj2w 

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Ryan,
Thanks again, so much! You've really gone above and beyond.
I appreciate your helpfulness.
:^) from breadsong