The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Reinhart’s NY Deli Rye and Smaller Tartine Country Loaves

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GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

Reinhart’s NY Deli Rye and Smaller Tartine Country Loaves


 


More experiments today.  I baked a Jewish-style rye bread for the first time and I riffed on Tartine’s Basic Country Bread.


The Rye and Wherefore


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I have been meaning to bake a Jewish-style rye bread for quite a while.  It hadn’t made it to the top of the list largely because my wife, though a devout Carbotarian, is not a fan of rye breads.  I have very fond memories of the “corn rye” from Karsh’s Bakery in the old country (Fresno).  And, though I don’t like the dense high-percentage rye breads that some TFLers do, I do consider rye sandwich bread to be among the most important breads.


So, with promises not to include caraway seeds and—more important—promises to also bake Tartine Basic Country Bread, I managed to get the (completely unnecessary) spousal consent to bake a rye bread.


I chose the New York Deli Rye from Reinhart’s The Bread Baker’s Apprentice.  The formula includes about 35% white rye flour (I used Central Milling Organic Light Rye), half of it pre-fermented.  The formula calls for first clear, high gluten or bread flour.  I would have gone for the first clear or KAF Sir Lancelot, but I don’t have any, so I used BRM bread flour. 


The dough was nice to work with once I got it hydrated enough.  It was easy to shape into nice cylinders.  Both the primary ferment and the proofing took less time than the book specifies (I guess my kitchen is warm today).  The loaves came out looking pretty good.  I like the medium dense, medium moist texture. 


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The flavor is good, but a bit too sweet from the brown sugar.  It made for an excellent corned beef sandwich (the real purpose of Deli Rye). 


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Nothing wrong with this bread, but I think I’ll try another recipe next time, maybe a Hamelman.


Tartine Demi-Loaves


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A couple weeks ago, I baked the Tartine Basic Country Bread for the first time, and I was delighted with it in every way, except (1) the formula calls for a levain that is twice the amount needed for the dough, and (2) the formula makes two one-kilo loaves, and that is just too big for our normal use.


I have said before, in discussions about humungous miches, that I just don’t think the texture and flavor differences of a huge loaf are as big as the inconvenience of trying to consume one.  I needed to find out if Mr. Robertson’s much ballyhooed BCB formula could be tweaked to work better for me.


So, I mostly followed the formula, but I made half the amount of levain called for (just enough for one recipe), and I divided the dough into one one-kilo boule and two small batards of about 500 grams each.


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I used all Central Milling flours: Organic Artisan Baker’s Craft white flour and Organic High-Protein Fine whole wheat flour.  The fermentation time and proofing time were shorter than last time (again the warm kitchen).  I baked the small batards on the stone, and the boule in a Dutch oven. [edit: here's a photo of the boule in the DO].


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Because of the smaller loaf size, the batards baked 18 minutes on stone with steam at 450 F regular bake, then 18 minutes dry at 425 F convection.  The internal loaf temperature was 209 F.  The full-size boule baked in a cast iron Dutch oven at 425 F convection covered for 20 minutes, then uncovered for 17 minutes.  Internal temperature was 210 F.


The batard was just as delicious, and the crumb just as holey and moist as the previous bake of this (full-size) bread.  


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I have rarely achieved such a big grigne…from ear to ear (yes, I had a bit of fun with the scoring).


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I failed to capture a photo of the equally broad grin of my Number One Bread Taster.  I think I’ll be baking this bread a lot more often now that I know that size doesn’t matter.


Glenn

 

Comments

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hamelman's rye breads are all wonderful, but Greenstein's Jewish Sour Rye is closer to Karsh's, except it's better. Norm's Sour Rye formula is also on TFL. It's almost identical to Greenstein's.


If you have trouble finding this bread, look in my freezer. Here are links to the formulas:


Greenstein's Jewish Sour Rye from “Secrets of a Jewish Baker”


Sour rye bread (Norm's formula)


David

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

I'll try one of those next time I am expecting to have corned beef and company.


Glenn

Mebake's picture
Mebake

They all look great , Glenn! What a beautiful Grigne, and an impressive color on the loaves.. I like the crumb structure too..!


 

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

Thanks for the comment, Khalid.


I think the crust color has a lot to do with the convection oven and the malt-enriched flour.


As to the grigne, this was among the liveliest doughs I've worked with.  It really wanted to spring big!


Glenn

arlo's picture
arlo

Delicious looking bread Glenn.


I too found Reinhart's NY Rye and also his pumpernickel recipes to be not of my taste. Perhaps give Hamelman's caraway rye a shot, it is rather tasty.


Also, a loaf I do not see mentioned often on TFL is Beranbaum's pumpernickel from The Bread Bible. It isn't a bad American style pumpernickel, in fact I really enjoy it.

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

Not sure what it is, Arlo.  Looking at other formulas, it looks like few include sugar as the BBA one does.  In any case, I'll try several other deli rye formulas and find one (or more) I love.


Thanks for the comment.


Glenn

MadAboutB8's picture
MadAboutB8

Those BCB loaves look wonderful, both crumbs and crusts, Glenn. The colour is great, well brown & caramelisation.


Sue


http://youcandoitathome.blogspot.com


 


 

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

It tastes really great, too!


Glenn

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

The NY Deli Rye looks very nice but the crumb on the Tartine loaf is spectacular!  Lots and lots of glossy gelatinization!


My wife is no lover of caraway, either, so I frequently substitute fennel seeds.  They play very nicely with the onions in the bread.  My impression is that Mr. Reinhart has a sweet tooth.  I usually cut back on the brown sugar in this bread and I really don't care for the Multigrain Extraordinaire because it is (for my tastes) excessively sweet.


Paul

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

Thanks, Paul.  I love the look of the gelatinized starch, too.  The mouthfeel is just about perfect, though the crust could be a tad crispier.  I wonder if I could make skinnier loaves and bake them hotter and faster to get more crispiness?


Great idea about fennel!  I could just bake this with caraway, since my wife wouldn't love rye bread no matter what I put in it (except maybe less rye flour).  But I will try fennel some time.  This kind of roughly-half-rye formula could be a launching pad for all kinds of savory variations--maybe kosher salami, swiss cheese and spicy mustard baked right into it?


So many things to try!


Glenn

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

Your notion about making the Tartine in a batard or torpedo or other slender shape to increase the crust's crispness sounds workable.  Maybe some extra time in the oven with the door open and the heat turned off, too?  You are having so much fun with experimentation that changing the loaf size/shape/bake should be easy as pie.  I'll be interested to hear what you think of it.


Much as I enjoy salami, swiss cheese and a good mustard, I like them best on my bread instead of in it.  Understand that I wouldn't turn it down if offered; I just wouldn't do it on my own.  I enthusiastically endorse the notion that this bread is good with many kinds of savory accompaniments.  


Paul

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

 Beautifully gelatinized crumb and lovely gringe, you did such a beautiful bake!  I had plenty of corned beef for St. Pat's day...love those cornbeef sandwiches and yours look devine, even without the caraway 'lol'...I do love caraway and fennel too!  Sometimes I even give a little sprinkle for garnish over my cabbage.


Sylvia

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

Thanks, Sylvia.  A good corned beef sandwich is as good as food gets.  Unfortunately, this corned beef was from the deli, not home made.  Next time I make a rye bread, I'll have a party and make a fresh corned beef.


Glenn

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I didn't catch the date. 


David

wally's picture
wally

Both breads are beautiful, but the tartine's scoring, crust and crumb are superb! The translucence of the crumb is just plain wonderful to behold.

Good bake Glenn!
Larry

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

Thanks, Larry.  It's a special pleasure to receive such a compliment from you.


I'm pleased with the Tartine demi-loaves.  I can't wait to try the full-size loaf from this batch (frozen for later use).


Glenn

Janknitz's picture
Janknitz

I once accidentally used fennel seed in my rye instead of caraway, and it was GOOD.  I am learning to appreciate caraway, but it's not my favorite flavor in the world.  I've also been contemplating using celery seed in my rye bread--wouldn't that be interesting?


Your breads are gorgeous as always!  Your photos are good too--the breads almost pop off the screen (and into my mouth!).   



from Karsh's Bakery in the old country (Fresno). 



Too funny, David!

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

 



the breads almost pop off the screen (and into my mouth!).   



Some time soon, you'll be able to enjoy bread through the internet.


Thanks.


Glenn

rayel's picture
rayel

Superb breads, in all respects. Great pictures too.


Ray

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

Glenn

breadsong's picture
breadsong

...and the crumb on your Country Bread is outstanding!
from breadsong


 

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

Glenn

Franko's picture
Franko

Didn't you introduce yourself as a brand new baker just a few months ago?


Seriously though Glenn, both the breads are excellent, but the rye is such a perfect example of a classic deli rye with it's dense, moist crumb. Even a light rye needs a gentle touch to it when shaping, and you've done a great job of getting it just the way it should look. All that with a lovely pickle as well. Nice work!


Franko

GSnyde's picture
GSnyde

Thanks, Franko.  Yes, I've been at it only seven months.  I've still got a lot to learn.  When things work out, I give a lot of credit to good formulas, good ingredients, good equipment and good mentors.


As to the rye shaping, these loaves were very cooperative.  They held their shape well, even though proofed on a baking pan.  


Glenn